mountainman

Buddha and Pythagoras and their followers for the last two and a half thousand years are well educated and some quite practiced in the central and fundamental role of the keeping of "Noble Silence". The Pythagoreans five year vow of silence is an extreme example of this, but nevertheless there are many references to its practice in the literature. Many techniques of meditation stress the importance of this practice, and many modern Buddhist oriented meditation practices include at least a number of hours, if not a number of days observing this.

The purpose of intentionally keeping silent is of course an indispensible tool for the training and the calming of the mind. The simple principle is that unless the chattering voice is silent, how on earth can the silence of the mind be approached in any meaningful and meditative manner?

The authors of the New Testament of course failed to mention anything to do with Noble Silence. Why would this have been? I can think of a few reasons. Can anyone think of any more?

(1) Jesus existed and actually kept "Noble Silence" but the authors of the NT simply forgot to include mention of this spiritual practice.

(2) Jesus existed and did not practice "Noble Silence" and neither did any of his chattering followers.

(3) Jesus did not exist and the fabricators of the NT were totally unconcerned with "Noble Silence".

Toto

The "Noble Science" is not a Christian or Jewish doctrine or practice. Why should it be mentioned, whether or not Jesus existed?

Meditation has been adopted as a Christian practice, but it is not mentioned in the NT.

I fail to see the point of this thread.

Chili

I think his retreat to Bethany was his noble silence.

It was called tithing at one time until they replaced that wtih money. Must also remember that Jesus was no longer a Jew here and the days of tithing were over.

In Catholicsm the rosary is a form of silence as a repettitive chant with a contemplative direction for each decade.

Doug Shaver

(3), sort of. I believe Jesus did not exist, and I believe that the authors of the writings that were incorporated into the New Testament either never heard of the Noble Silence or else regarded it as irrelevant to whatever ideas they were promoting.

Walrus

While the NT may not mention "Noble Silence" by name, the principle of keeping a tight rein on the tongue is talked about in the book of James.

I question the value of judging Jesus and/or the New Testament by the standards of Buddhism, kind of like criticizing a rugby player for not using a soccer move.:huh:

mountainman

We might add concerning the authors of the NT writings that they seemed to have no regard for other { standard "religious" / "philosophical" / "metaphysical" } precepts of that ancient epoch namely ....

2) the practice of vegetarianism (which Porphyry links to justice).

3) the practice of the avoidance of intoxicants (eg: wine)

4) other ascetic practices

x) any more out there?

I cannot agree that these authors, whoever they were, were not aware of these principles in the religious milieu in which they supposedly wrote. Either that or we may be dealing with some backwater cult which had never seen the light of day in the Greek civilisation of the Roman Empire.

Thus it would appear that these authors of the NT writings must have regarded these above 4 issues as irrelevant to whatever ideas they were promoting. Given this position what ideas do you think the authors of the New Testament were promoting?

mountainman

Do you mind providing the line and verse from this NT book?

The analogy of playing a game is utterly superficial. And even if were not, Christians may not agree, but in my book - irrespective of the football code - both players are human beings.

Chili

But wait a second Pete, we all know that the cross of eternal salvation is for sinners only and none of the above seem to encourage the sinner who must be courageous as one of the Cardinal Virtues and so be cheerfull sinner do it again and maybe again and again . . . as long as he 'parks' his evils on the flying buttresses outside the Cathedral and keep his integrity when going inside where he may even see his 'confession' as a 'tall-tale telling' event.

Remember here that our human righteousness is but filthy rags and that to do escetic practices we must be called to be an ascetic first.

mountainman

As an added extra thought ....

To some extent it may be that an analogy to various football codes might be instructive to the mysteries surrounding christian origins and the New Testament. However I would suggest that the two competing codes were the Canonical Christians and the Gnasty Gnostics. To a certain extent the gnostic worldview minus the HJ is Platonic. Nag Hammadi tells us as much. The Gnostics more than likely had a connection to the writings of the lineage of Plotinus and Porphyry, and of Apollonius of Tyana, Plato and Pythagoras. And it is by no means an uncertain conjecture that the ideas of Pythagoras were triggered by Buddhist missionaries - the list of parallels is worth while reading a second time.


Two football teams entered the Nicaean stadium in the year 325 CE.
Constantine captained the Canonical Christians.
Arius of Alexandria captained the Gnasty Gnostics.
The result was three hundred and eighteen signatures to three absentee votes.
The rest is, shall we say, ancient history ....

"Detachments of the body- guard and other troops surrounded the entrance of the football stadium with drawn swords, and through the midst of these the members of the Canonical Christians proceeded without fear into the innermost of the imperial apartments, in which some were the emperor's own companions at table, while others reclined on couches arranged on either side. One might have thought that a picture of Christ's kingdom was thus shadowed forth, and a dream rather than reality.

[Eusebius, The Life of the Thrice-Blessed Emperor Constantine, CH 15]

jgreen44

The author of Mark incorporated a noble silence into his story.

Mark 14

60 The high priest stood up and came forward and questioned Jesus, saying, "Do You not answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?"

61 But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"