mountainman

Constantine was the fourth century Hitler who was not brought
to account by any parties. In the following list of historical events
you can see the parallels between the Constantinian christianity,
and the corresponding absence of such events under Julian, and
then the resumption of the Constantinian "christian agenda" after
the death of Julian.

You make a clear note that "Sage shows that Ibsen cheated on
the historical research." The following account addresses the
lack of Ibsen's historical research...

Constantine as Hitler ...

314 Immediately after its full legalization, the Christian Church attacks
non-Christians. The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of Goddess
Artemis.

324 The emperor Constantine declares Christianity as the only official
religion of the Roman Empire. In Dydima, Minor Asia, he sacks the Oracle of
the god Apollo and tortures the pagan priests to death. He also evicts all
non-Christian peoples from Mount Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic
temples.

325 Nicene Council. The god-man gets a promotion: 'Christ is Divine'

326 Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys
the temple of the god Asclepius in Aigeai Cilicia and many temples of the
goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenicia, Baalbek, etc.

330 Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the pagan temples of
Greece to decorate Constantinople, the new capital of his Empire.

335 Constantine sacks many pagan temples in Asia Minor and Palestine and
orders the execution by crucifixion of "all magicians and soothsayers."
Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatrus.

341 Constantius II (Flavius Julius Constantius) persecutes "all the
soothsayers and the Hellenists." Many gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned
or executed.

346 New large scale persecutions against non-Christian peoples in
Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius accused as a
"magician".

353 An edict of Constantius orders the death penalty for all kind of worship
through sacrifice and "idols".

354 A new edict orders the closing of all the pagan temples. Some of them
are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms.

Execution of pagan priests begins.

A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the pagan temples and
the execution of all "idolaters".

First burning of libraries in various cities of the empire.

The first lime factories are organized next to the closed pagan temples. A
major part of the holy architecture of the pagans is turned into lime.

357 Constantius outlaws all methods of divination (astrology not excluded).

359 In Skythopolis, Syria, the Christians organize the first death camps for
the torture and executions of the arrested non-Christians from all around
the empire.


Julian's reign ...

361 to 363 Religious tolerance and restoration of the pagan cults is
declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the pagan emperor Julian
(Flavius Claudius Julianus).

363 Assassination of Julian (26th June).

Resumption of the new and strange Constantinian christian agenda ...

364 Emperor Jovian orders the burning of the Library of Antioch.

An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all those
that worship their ancestral gods or practice divination ("sileat omnibus
perpetuo divinandi curiositas").

Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order
the confiscation of all properties of the pagan temples and the death
penalty for participation in pagan rituals, even private ones.

The Church Council of Laodicea (Phrygia - western Asia Minor) orders that
religious observances are to be conducted on Sunday and not on Saturday.
Sunday becomes the new Sabbath. The practice of staying at home and resting
on Saturday declared sinful and anathema to Christ.

365 An imperial edict from Emperor Valens, a zealous Arian Christian (17th
November), forbids pagan officers of the army to command Christian soldiers.

370 Valens orders a tremendous persecution of non-Christian peoples in all
the Eastern Empire. In Antioch, among many other non-Christians, the
ex-governor Fidustius and the priests Hilarius and Patricius are executed.
The philosopher Simonides is burned alive and the philosopher Maximus is
decapitated. All the friends of Julian are persecuted (Orebasius,
Sallustius, Pegasius etc.).

Tons of books are burnt in the squares of the cities of the Eastern Empire.

372 Valens orders the governor of Minor Asia to exterminate all the Hellenes
and all documents of their wisdom.

373 New prohibition of all divination methods is issued. The term "pagan"
(pagani, villagers, equivalent to the modern insult, "peasants") is
introduced by the Christians to demean non-believers.

375 The temple of Asclepius in Epidaurus, Greece, is closed down by the
Christians.

380 On 27th February Christianity becomes the exclusive religion of the
Roman Empire by an edict of the Emperor Flavius Theodosius, requiring that:

"All the various nations which are subject to our clemency and moderation
should continue in the profession of that religion which was delivered to
the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter."

The non-Christians are called "loathsome, heretics, stupid and blind".

In another edict, Theodosius calls "insane" those that do not believe to the
Christian God and outlaws all disagreement with the Church dogmas.

Ambrosius, bishop of Milan, begins the destruction of pagan temples of his
area. The Christian priests lead the hungry mob against the temple of
goddess Demeter in Eleusis and try to lynch the hierophants Nestorius and
Priskus. The 95 year old hierophant Nestorius ends the Eleusinian Mysteries
and announces "the predominance of mental darkness over the human race."

381 At the Council of Constantinople the 'Holy Spirit' is declared 'Divine'
(thus sanctioning a triune god). On 2nd May, Theodosius deprives of all
their rights any Christians who return to the pagan religion. Throughout the
Eastern Empire the pagan temples and libraries are looted or burned down. On
21st December, Theodosius outlaws visits to Hellenic temples.

In Constantinople, the Temple of Aphrodite is turned into a brothel and the
temples of the Sun and Artemis to stables.

382 "Hellelujah" ("Glory to Yahweh") is imposed in the Christian mass.

384 Theodosius orders the Praetorian Prefect Maternus Cynegius, a dedicated
Christian, to cooperate with local bishops and destroy the temples of the
pagans in Northern Greece and Minor Asia.

385 to 388 Prefect Maternus Cynegius, encouraged by his fanatic wife, and
bishop 'Saint' Marcellus with his gangs, scour the countryside and sack and
destroy hundreds of Hellenic temples, shrines and altars. Among others they
destroy the temple of Edessa, the Cabeireion of Imbros, the temple of Zeus
in Apamea, the temple of Apollo in Dydima and all the temples of Palmyra.

Thousands of innocent pagans from all sides of the empire suffer martyrdom
in the notorious death camps of Skythopolis.

386 Theodosius outlaws the care of the sacked pagan temples.

388 Public talks on religious subjects are outlawed by Theodosius. The old
orator Libanius sends his famous epistle "Pro Templis" to Theodosius with
the hope that the few remaining Hellenic temples will be respected and
spared.

389 to 390 All non-Christian calendars and dating-methods are outlawed.
Hordes of fanatic hermits from the desert flood the cities of the Middle
East and Egypt and destroy statues, altars, libraries and pagan temples, and
lynch the pagans. Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, starts heavy
persecutions against non-Christian peoples, turning the temple of Dionysius
into a Christian church, burning down the Mithraeum of the city, destroying
the temple of Zeus and burlesques the pagan priests before they are killed
by stoning. The Christian mob profanes the cult images.

391 On 24th February, a new edict of Theodosius prohibits not only visits to
pagan temples but also looking at the vandalized statues. New heavy
persecutions occur all around the empire. In Alexandria, Egypt, pagans, led
by the philosopher Olympius, revolt and after some street fights they lock
themselves inside the fortified temple of the god Serapis (the Serapeion).
After a violent siege, the Christians take over the building, demolish it,
burn its famous library and profane the cult images.

392 On 8th November, Theodosius outlaws all the non-Christian rituals and
names them "superstitions of the gentiles" (gentilicia superstitio). New
full scale persecutions are ordered against pagans. The Mysteries of
Samothrace are ended and the priests slaughtered. In Cyprus the local bishop
"Saint" Epiphanius and "Saint" Tychon destroy almost all the temples of the
island and exterminate thousands of non-Christians. The local Mysteries of
goddess Aphrodite are ended. Theodosius's edict declares:

"The ones that won't obey pater Epiphanius have no right to keep living in
that island."

The pagans revolt against the Emperor and the Church in Petra, Aeropolis,
Rafia, Gaza, Baalbek and other cities of the Middle East.

393 The Pythian Games, the Aktia Games and the Olympic Games are outlawed as
part of the Hellenic "idolatry". The Christians sack the temples of Olympia.

395 Two new edicts (22nd July and 7th August) cause new persecutions against
pagans. Rufinus, the eunuch Prime Minister of Emperor Flavius Arcadius
directs the hordes of baptized Goths (led by Alaric) to the country of the
Hellenes. Encouraged by Christian monks the barbarians sack and burn many
cities (Dion, Delphi, Megara, Corinth, Pheneos, Argos, Nemea, Lycosoura,
Sparta, Messene, Phigaleia, Olympia, etc.), slaughter or enslave innumerable
gentile Hellenes and burn down all the temples. Among others, they burn down
the Eleusinian Sanctuary and burn alive all its priests (including the
hierophant of Mithras Hilarius).

396 On 7th December, a new edict by Arcadius orders that paganism be treated
as high treason. Imprisonment of the few remaining pagan priests and
hierophants.

397 "Demolish them!" Flavius Arcadius orders that all the still standing
pagan temples be demolished.

398 The 4th Church Council of Carthage prohibits everybody, including
Christian bishops, from studying pagan books. Porphyrius, bishop of Gaza,
demolishes almost all the pagan temples of his city (except nine of them
that remain active).

399 With a new edict (13th July) Flavius Arcadius orders all remaining pagan
temples, mainly in the countryside, be immediately demolished.

400 Bishop Nicetas destroys the Oracle of Dionysus in Vesai and baptizes all
the non-Christians of this area.

401 The Christian mob of Carthage lynches non-Christians and destroys
temples and "idols". In Gaza too, the local bishop "Saint" Porphyrius sends
his followers to lynch pagans and to demolish the remaining nine still
active temples of the city.

The 15th Council of Chalcedon orders all the Christians that still keep good
relations with their non-Christian relatives to be excommunicated (even
after their death).

405 John Chrysostom sends hordes of grey-dressed monks armed with clubs and
iron bars to destroy the "idols" in all the cities of Palestine.

406 John Chrysostom collects funds from rich Christian women to financially
support the demolition of the Hellenic temples. In Ephesus he orders the
destruction of the famous temple of Artemis. In Salamis, Cyprus, "Saints"
Epiphanius and Eutychius continue the persecutions of the pagans and the
total destruction of their temples and sanctuaries.

407 A new edict outlaws once more all the non-Christian acts of worship.

408 The emperor of the Western Empire, Honorius, and the emperor of the
Eastern Empire, Arcadius, order all the sculptures of the pagan temples to
be either destroyed or to be taken away. Private ownership of pagan
sculpture is also outlawed. The local bishops lead new heavy persecutions
against the pagans and new book burning. The judges that have pity for the
pagans are also persecuted. "Saint" Augustine massacres hundreds of
protesting pagans in Calama, Algeria.

409 Another edict orders all methods of divination including astrology to be
punished by death.

415 In Alexandria, the Christian mob, urged by the bishop Cyril, attacks a
few days before the Judeo-Christian Pascha (Easter) and cuts to pieces the
famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. The pieces of her body, carried
around by the Christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, are finally
burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron.

On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the pagan priests of
North Africa who end their lives either crucified or burned alive. Emperor
Theodosius II expels the Jews from Alexandria.

416 The inquisitor Hypatius, alias "The Sword of God", exterminates the last
pagans of Bithynia. In Constantinople (7th December) all non-Christian army
officers, public employees and judges are dismissed.

423 Emperor Theodosius II declares (8th June) that the religion of the
pagans is nothing more than "demon worship" and orders all those who persist
in practicing it to be punished by imprisonment and torture.

429 The temple of goddess Athena (Parthenon) on the Acropolis of Athens is
sacked. The Athenian pagans are persecuted.

431 Council of Ephesus ("Robber Synod"). Promotion for the god-man - "Christ
is complete God and complete man."

435 On 14th November, a new edict by Theodosius II orders the death penalty
for all "heretics" and pagans of the empire. Only Judaism is considered a
legal non-Christian religion.

438 Theodosius II issues an new edict (31st January) against the pagans,
incriminating their "idolatry" as the reason of a recent plague!

440 to 450 The Christians demolish all the monuments, altars and temples of
Athens, Olympia, and other Greek cities.
book burning
448 Theodosius II orders all non-Christian books to be burned.

450 All the temples of Aphrodisias (the City of the Goddess Aphrodite) are
demolished and all its libraries burned down. The city is renamed
Stavroupolis (City of the Cross).

451 Council of Chalcedon. New edict by Theodosius II (4th November)
emphasizes that "idolatry" is punished by death. Assertion of orthodox
doctrine over the 'Monophysites' - 'JC has single, divine nature.'

457 to 491 Sporadic persecutions against the pagans of the Eastern Empire.
Among others, the physician Jacobus and the philosopher Gessius are
executed. Severianus, Herestios, Zosimus, Isidorus and others are tortured
and imprisoned. The proselytizer Conon and his followers exterminate the
last non-Christians of Imbros Island, Northeast Aegean Sea. The last
worshippers of Lavranius Zeus are exterminated in Cyprus.

482 to 488 The majority of the pagans of Minor Asia are exterminated after a
desperate revolt against the emperor and the Church.

486 More "underground" pagan priests are discovered, arrested, burlesqued,
tortured and executed in Alexandria, Egypt.
full body baptism 515 Baptism becomes obligatory even for those that
already say they are Christians.

The emperor of Constantinople, Anastasius, orders the massacre of the pagans
in the Arabian city Zoara and the demolition of the temple of local god
Theandrites.

523 Emperor Justin I outlaws the Arian heresy and campaigns to suppress
Arianism everywhere.

528 Emperor Justinian outlaws the "alternative" Olympian Games of Antioch.
He also orders the execution-by fire, crucifixion, tearing to pieces by wild
beasts or cutting to pieces by iron nails-of all who practice "sorcery,
divination, magic or idolatry" and prohibits all teachings by the pagans
("the ones suffering from the blasphemous insanity of the Hellenes").

529 Justinian outlaws the Athenian Philosophical Academy and has its
property confiscated.

532 The inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus, a fanatical monk, leads a crusade
against the pagans of Minor Asia.

542 Justinian allows the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus to forcibly convert the
pagans of Phrygia, Caria and Lydia in Asia Minor. Within 35 years of this
crusade, 99 churches and 12 monasteries are built on the sites of demolished
pagan temples.

546 Hundreds of pagans are put to death in Constantinople by the inquisitor
Ioannis Asiacus.

556 Justinian orders the notorious inquisitor Amantius to go to Antioch, to
find, arrest, torture and exterminate the last non-Christians of the city
and burn all the private libraries down.

562 Mass arrests, burlesquing, tortures, imprisonments and executions of
gentile Hellenes in Athens, Antioch, Palmyra and Constantinople.

578 to 582 The Christians torture and crucify Hellenes all around the
Eastern Empire, and exterminate the last non-Christians of Heliopolis
(Baalbek).

580 The Christian inquisitors attack a secret temple of Zeus in Antioch. The
priest commits suicide, but the rest of the pagans are arrested. All the
prisoners, the Vice Governor Anatolius included, are tortured and sent to
Constantinople to face trial. Sentenced to death they are thrown to the
lions. The wild animals being unwilling to tear them to pieces, they end up
crucified. Their dead bodies are dragged in the streets by the Christian mob
and afterwards thrown unburied in the dump.

583 New persecutions against the gentile Hellenes by Emperor Maurice.

590 In all the Eastern Empire the Christian accusers "discover" pagan
conspiracies. New storm of torture and executions.



Original Source: Vlasis Rassias, Demolish Them!
Published in Greek, Athens 1994





Pete Brown

countjulian

A good bit of that list is BS. I tried to go through it and sort the BS from the truthwith the help of Bede and Roger Pearse, but Bede and Pearse got emberrassed (I was a bit over aggressive). The thread can be found here http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=142782

darstec

<edit>Are you sure their agendas are orthodox and fundamentalist enough? The questions were rhetorical. We know the answer.

EthnAlln

Well, I'm going to avoid taking sides on this until I know how much of the story posted above is well-attested by historians. I have only ever done a little research into the history of Hypatia, who may possibly be the author of part of what we now call the Arithmetica of Diophantos. It is known from the works of Pappus that she and her father wrote commentaries on Diophantos and may have edited some of his work. She was certainly murdered in 415, probably because (according to her contemporary Socrates Scholasticus, who lived in Constantinople) a rumor spread that she was keeping Bishop Cyril of Alexandria from being reconciled to the Roman procurator Orestes. She was a pagan, but was on friendly terms with Synesius, bishop of Ptolemais (Libya), and several of his letters to her have been preserved.

Socrates Scholasticus takes a tut-tut attitude toward the people who murdered her, saying that murder is contrary to the spirit of Christianity. The encyclopedia Suda (once thought to be the work of a writer named Suidas), which was written five hundred years later, erroneously says that she was the wife of the philosopher Isodorus. It says Cyril went ballistic over the popularity of her enlightenment-style salons and incited the murder.

Then, after another 800 years passed, Edward Gibbon decided to write the story his way, adding many gory details of the murder that have no basis in fact. All this got wrapped up in genuine fiction in Charles Kingsley's novel Hypatia, or New Foes with an Old Face. She's an early icon (and deservedly so, even though we know of her work only by reputation) of women in science. But I don't think she was "beautiful" at the time of her murder. She was well into the post-babe years by then.

The Suda reports, however, that lots of young men tried to hit on her when she was young; and to discourage one of them, she threw one of her used menstrual pads in his face. That probably would be a turn-off for most guys.

mountainman

Had a look at this thread. It appears you only got a small way through
the list. So what, in this small review of the list that was thus conducted,
do you make out to be BS? It appears to me that much of the list is
actually quite accurate.



Pete Brown
www.mountainman.com.au

Roger Pearse

There is a good account of the events leading up to the murder of Hypatia in the Chronicle of John of Nikiu, in chapter 83.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

post tenebras lux

But Hitler tended towards Aryan Christianity that held that Jesus was not jewish but (you guessed it) aryan, which I thinks works by boldly claiming that Mary was an aryan princess who was already preggers when she was forced to flee to the holy land where she married Joseph for protection/social reasons.

Paul - the former christ-hating jewish Saul - would then be the one who took the aryan Jesus' message and messed it up with jewish theology even whilst cunningly spreading it amongst the gentiles.

Fortuna

Roger,

Small correction. While in the table of contents it says that the story of Hypatia is in chapter 83, in the actual text [below the TOC) has Hypatia's story at the end of chapter 84.(I also note that the TOC is missing an entry for 84, perhaps that's a typo in the TOC).

In any case, after reading over a few chapters of that Chronicle, and assuming that it has some veracity, it does read as though the Orthodox are indeed engaged in a very bloody campaign against both christian heretics and the Hellenes/Philosophers(pagans). I see the term "heathen" used quite a bit in reference to the Hellenes and Philosophers.

From just my gloss, while these Chronicles don;t support MountainMan's list point-by-point, it does indicate that the Ortho Christians were heck-bent on exterminating pagans and heretics. It further indicates that the Orthodox Christians felt that this was entirely justifiable and almost as a holy mission from their perspective (regardless of what we might think of it).

If anything, it supports that things like MountanMan describes were in fact going on during this period (assuming that those Chronicles have some veracity).

Of course, from my modern perspective, it disturbs me a bit that a group that claimed to be so persecuted so quickly became brutal persecutors themselves when they gained political power.

Gamera

You're arguing against yourself. To the extent you establish the extremism and violence of Julian's opponents, you establish his lack of objectivity. Assuming everything you say about Constantine and his reign is true, it would suggest that Julian had one of the biggest axes to grind in history, and nothing he says can be taken at face value. He was a man with an agenda, apparently as big as his nemesis, whom he opposed so vehemently.

mountainman

The claim of past persecution was also fictitious and non historical IMO.
There were no christians until the fourth century, and then even though
they did not walk into the Council of Nicaea as christians, the attendees
of the Nicaean council left as christians, leaving their creed behind them.



Pete Brown