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07-10-2009, 11:33 AM | #11 | |||
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http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/ma...sephus_all.htm There's a facsimile of it in Eisler. |
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07-10-2009, 12:19 PM | #12 | ||
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I particularly like that Constantine was the hero for using his "muscle" to uncover the true texts that had been hidden away. By Hebrew Torah you are talking about what is preserved in the extant Masoretic texts? I'm having trouble understanding the parallel lineages of manuscripts between the translation of the LXX and the 7th century Masoretes. There seem to be a wide range of opinions. I'm still reading on the topic but comments are welcome. Agapius was writing in the 10th century so I'm not sure his opinions are valid historically other than to elucidate what was generally accepted in the 10th century. |
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07-10-2009, 09:40 PM | #13 |
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Forgot to add that I believe there are other manuscripts that attach the TF to BJ--Eisler mentions them, and I'm pretty sure they're on Pearse's list. I seem to recall three of them. The difference is that they generally tack it on to the end (one may be at the beginning)--but the Vossianus places it in the middle of Book II. Don't get too excited, though--it's clearly been inserted, and also contains a quotation from Discourse to the Greeks Concerning Hades. Eisler has his usual wild theories as to why. (Its location also has nothing to do with the location of the Slavonic Tesimonium, BTW.)
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07-10-2009, 10:52 PM | #14 | ||||
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07-10-2009, 10:55 PM | #15 | |
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We must also remember Agapius is writing in Arabic. He is using Syriac sources, and knows Syriac. Not sure whether he knows Greek. |
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07-11-2009, 09:35 AM | #16 | |
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The Variability of Text
Hi The Cave,
I think the insertion of the TF in different manuscripts of Josephus' Wars, plus a version being found in Slavonic Josephus' account of the Wars, plus the reference to it being in Wars by Agapius is significant. It shows that the TF was not only being changed incidentally in terms of words, but even location was variable. We may look at variability at different textual levels: 1. Words. 2. Incidents/Event: Words generally describe incidents or events 3. Tales: Incidents are put together to tell a tale 4. Story: Tales are put together to tell a story 5. Book: Stories are put together to create a book 6. Collection of Books: Books are put together to create a collection The TF is a tale of Jesus. It seems to be variable on all six levels from the time it is first mentioned by Eusebius circa 315 to the time of Agapius in the 10th century. While words are almost always variable, and incidents are occasionally variable, it is not the usual case for a story to vary on all these levels. Warmly, Philosopher Jay Quote:
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07-11-2009, 02:56 PM | #17 | ||||||
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Ben. |
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07-11-2009, 06:26 PM | #18 | ||
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That would be "Codex Vossianus" per
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus Since the Vossian library contained a large number of codices, I found a more precise reference, "Codex Vossianus Graec.72 Olim Petavianus" housed at the Univeristy Libary in Leyden (Zindler) at: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Josephus_on_Jesus DCH Quote:
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07-11-2009, 07:00 PM | #19 | |
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The fifth reference seems to be confused, because Josephus doesn't treat the siege in Antiquities, of course, so this looks like a derivative reference. However, the first I assume comes from Antiquities, doesn't it? Still, being only one reference, Agapius could have gotten it from someone else. |
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07-11-2009, 07:47 PM | #20 | ||
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So you did! <g>
Yeah, I thought about looking in Eisler but didn't feel like wading through the gazillion photocopied books in my library to find it. DCH Quote:
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