Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ted Hoffman · 12-06-2004, 06:34 AM

On the Problems of Reconstructing Pre-Hellenistic Israelite (Palestinian) History

Quote:

The empire of David and Solomon believed to have existed in the 10th century B.C.E. is evidently based on a fictional representation of the past. Many things speak in favour of this conclusion. One of them has to do with the status of Jerusalem in the 10th century B.C.E. when Jerusalem was at most a village or a small town

Celsus · 12-06-2004, 07:03 AM

Right, so according to Lemche, David may or may not have existed, but his empire certainly didn't. I agree completely. What were you trying to get at? I don't understand why you threw in the "empire that overrun the Philistines" bit--Lemche says nothing of the sort.

Joel

Ted Hoffman · 12-06-2004, 09:12 PM

According to the Bible, under David's leadership, the Israelites 'conquered' the Philistines.

Lemche says David's empire did not exist in 10 Cent BCE.

It was asked "What Empire?"

I said the Empire that overrun the Philistines.

Lemche doesn't define what he means by "empire". Of course, it was the fictitious Biblical 'empire'. Why is it necessary that I be 'getting at' something when I infer that 'empire' refers to the Kingdom of David et al as portrayed in the Bible?

Ted Hoffman · 12-06-2004, 09:17 PM

According to the Bible, under David's leadership, the Israelites defeated the Philistines.

Lemche says David's empire did not exist in 10 Cent BCE.

It was asked "What Empire?"

I said the Empire that overrun the Philistines.

Lemche doesn't define what he means by "empire". Of course, it was the fictitious Biblical 'empire' [you introduced the phrase 'subscribe to'] in the Bible - or is there another source that portrays David as heading am 'empire'?.

Why is it necessary that I be 'getting at' something when I infer that 'empire' refers to the Kingdom of David et al as portrayed in the Bible?

Celsus · 12-06-2004, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Hoffman

Why is it necessary that I be 'getting at' something when I infer that 'empire' refers to the Kingdom of David et al as portrayed in the Bible?

It would have helped if you'd simply said "the biblical empire" or "empire as portrayed in the Bible" right from the start. I was under the impression that you thought Lemche was refering to some historical empire.

Joel

Toto · 12-09-2004, 02:57 PM

Willowtree's comments on inerrancy have been split off here

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12-06-2004, 07:03 AM	#32
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	Right, so according to Lemche, David may or may not have existed, but his empire certainly didn't. I agree completely. What were you trying to get at? I don't understand why you threw in the "empire that overrun the Philistines" bit--Lemche says nothing of the sort. Joel

12-06-2004, 09:12 PM	#33
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	According to the Bible, under David's leadership, the Israelites 'conquered' the Philistines. Lemche says David's empire did not exist in 10 Cent BCE. It was asked "What Empire?" I said the Empire that overrun the Philistines. Lemche doesn't define what he means by "empire". Of course, it was the fictitious Biblical 'empire'. Why is it necessary that I be 'getting at' something when I infer that 'empire' refers to the Kingdom of David et al as portrayed in the Bible?

12-06-2004, 09:17 PM	#34
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	According to the Bible, under David's leadership, the Israelites defeated the Philistines. Lemche says David's empire did not exist in 10 Cent BCE. It was asked "What Empire?" I said the Empire that overrun the Philistines. Lemche doesn't define what he means by "empire". Of course, it was the fictitious Biblical 'empire' [you introduced the phrase 'subscribe to'] in the Bible - or is there another source that portrays David as heading am 'empire'?. Why is it necessary that I be 'getting at' something when I infer that 'empire' refers to the Kingdom of David et al as portrayed in the Bible?

12-09-2004, 02:57 PM	#36
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Willowtree's comments on inerrancy have been split off here

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