Clivedurdle

With a vicar of Christ resigning, I think we are agreed that "the xian view of history" with a Jesus starting it all, with a Peter and Paul etc is extremely problematic.

So, how might we work out what actually might have happened?

As with Shakespeare rewriting Richard III - I agree with Josephine Tey that he was a good King for his time and place! - and Julius Caesar re-imagining the Celts, there is a very venerable tradition of rewriting stuff from a particular perspective, especially where power and wealth are involved.

I understand we are with the start of xianity in a world where deception, misinformation and magick are utterly central. Rumsfeld with his unknown unknowns would have loved it!

So what do we have?

Not a lot, and interestingly the archaeology etc does point to the 320's - 400 CE.....

XianCatalyst

I would think if you wish to claim all of the faith was rewritten to service political ends, it was so far beyond even Machiavellian standards of manipulation for consistency that it would have to be a miracle of the supernatural divine influence. :|

You have so many consistent messages of this faith from so many different mindsets, cultures, etc... to find that they all were manipulated the same way, and controlled as such, to create a consistent/persistent lie, puts way more faith in the power of people than is warranted, no?

Clivedurdle

Welcome!

Clivedurdle

Is a reasonable range somewhere between publication of the Septuagint and Constantine?

Earlier - Cyrus?

Place?

Alexandria, Jerusalem, Bythnia?

Toto

This is a curious claim. Christianity seems wildly inconsistent until the fourth century, when Constantine got all the bishops in one room and knocked heads together.

Could you explain what you mean?

outhouse

There is nothing problematic to early christianity when placed in cultural anthropology.


Groups of Hellenisic Gate Proselytes and Hellenistic God Fearers already had a split in Judaism before Jesus even came into the picture. There was only so much real Jews would welcome their oppressors into their religion.

Something understudied is the wide diversity of Judaism before the temple fell.

But there is no mystery here at all that a martyred man at passover ignited oral tradition that was spread all through the Roman empire as attendants at passover returned home with this seed of a legend.

Within a few years these Hellenistic Gentiles has already been forming his divinity against the Emporers divinity, as Paul traveled the empire, he began addressing different beliefs of different groups in houses trying to sway then to his version.


Judaism was wide and diverse, and christianity was no different as toto points out.


How it began is no mystery at all with all the written evidence of mythology created from the early legends.

outhouse

Jerusalem at passover is when and where the movement first deviated from Judaism

outhouse

Except for one big problem with this view.


The early movement started against the governement and corruption in place, unless you want to argue Jews loved Roman oppression.

Chili

The Jews knew exaclty what they were doing, never forget, which is not to say that the common Jew would know.

But the knowledge was out there, as an end in itself wherein the common Jew could reach that end. That is a fact, because Mark, if Mark was first, is stacked with the common error, not just of those days, but common in all mythologies wherein he was void of tradition when he got zapped.

And let me for now say that there is power in the zap because the veil is torn between the left and right that we call TOK and TOL, from where, according to Plato, an infinite source of light will stimulate the TOK (for short).

This light makes perception (aisthesis) real as near, but not dear as knowledge (nous) so now also without end. This in turn makes the now enriched believer in hot pursuit towards that end, and that was the problem about then that they called Galilee = a state of mind that we call charismatic, like those gong shows on [international] TV clearly demonstrate.

So the whole place was on fire, we can say, and it took some time and good effort to quench that fire, and that is the time you are looking for here now.

And let me agree here first that also for them knowledge is real or they could not have no perception of it.

So the real question now becomes: who were they and when did those in the know get their act together to start the next civilization that became known as the greatest that ever was.

It is not political by intent, but politics are needed to define what is right and wrong inside this greater aim, wherein the Freeman must also resign from politics as solitary individual.

An apology here to say that knowledge itself is the leader and we must be good stewards to make it prosper and bloom for all to see. I.e. Truth is and beauty is it's shine and that can radiate from us to make it known.

So yes, whenever they called their Church to Order is when it all began.

Chili

It is not a deviation but a confirmation, and we walk proud and tall beside them now.