Toto

This thread has reappeared after a long time, but what's a few months when you are talking about a few thousand years ago?

Here are some other threads along this line:

Dominus Flevit - Archeology Question

Jesus Mysteries Forum

Kosh

So then, the angel Moroni and Mormonism must be true? Look how fast that legend was created!

Right Magus?

You might spend some time reading up on culture and atmosphere of the 1st century in Palestine.

Epictetus

This line of reasoning that "Legends aren't created that fast" is faulty. Xtians use this hackneyed apologetic to shore up their belief that Jesus had to have been historical.

You don't think legends can form almost immediately after some event? Take a look at the assassination of JFK. He was shot in broad daylight in front of hundreds of people, some of whom took 8 mm. film of the event. Yet still to this day, there are people who claim that Oswald DID NOT act alone; that shots rang out from the grassy knoll. Oliver Stone made his movie about it. More people believe Oliver Stone than the Warren Commission, a legally mandated investigating body. Why? Conspiracy nuts. Gullible human beings.

Just because there were gullible Jewish peasants spreading the latest miracle stories throughout the Levant, it does not mean that it was true. Legends and myths can start overnight. All it takes is a good story-teller and a bunch of gullible hayseeds who then broadcast it to everyone they meet. Voila! You have a resurrected savior! :rolling:

rlogan

Hi Spin.

This question sparked the rememberance in me that we were to "take up the cross" and follow Jesus.

I see that expression in Mark 8:34 and other places. Blue letter Bible has all of the translations meaning the same thing.

I think this expression "take up his cross" was common, apart from Christianity. That is to say, it would not have been a distinctive innovation by Christians, but rather a thing Christians would glom onto for popular appeal.

Uh-oh. I see a reference to JFK and conspiracy nuts. Should I send him to your post in PD?

Vorkosigan

Yes, it is found among the Cynics. Epictetus the Cynic philosopher: "If you want to be crucified, just wait. The cross will come. If it seems reasonable to comply, and the circumstances are right, then it's to be carried through, and your integrity maintained." There are others, but I am too lazy to copy them.

Epictetus

Point me to the post...please! Although I am intrigued whether this post concurs with my opinion about conspiracy nuts or not. Allow me to add that xtians get off on this kind of B.S. They will believe almost anything if it reinforces their view of the universe; i.e. that Jesus is speeding on his way back to suck them up to heaven.

By the way, xtians, as you and Spin pointed out, never had any problem assimilating philosophy, history and anything else that they fancied in order to bolster their ridiculous theology. Stoicism was a popular and respected way of dealing with an insensate, arbitrary universe. xtians co-opted its peaceful acceptance of fate and substituted God / Jesus as the reason for remaining courageous and peaceful in the face of adversity. What a prostitution of a beautiful philosophy!

Diogenes the Cynic

You have to look at what the evidence actually is as opposed to how this ridiculous article tends to spin it. In the example you quoted, the article saysthis:
The article says that a monogram inscription was found which consisted of three letters, iota, chi and beta (which transliterate in English to I, Ch and B). The article then claims that this is "translated" as "Jesus Christ the helper).

First of all, that's not a "translation." There is nothing to translate, it's just three letters. It's a monogram. It's someone's initials. Secondly, there is absolutely no reason at all to decide that those letters stand for "Jesus Christ, Redeemer except a desperate desire to find a Christian meaning where there is none. Theys see the initials IXB and decide based on nothing what those initials must stand for.

They pull this kind of crap all the way through the article. Notice how they twice insert the paranthetical "(Peter)" into an inscription reading "Simon, son of Jonah."

There is no reason to put the name "Peter" into that inscription. The name Simon was quite common and "Peter" is Greek for Cephas, not Simon.

They're playing fast and loose with their interpretations here. There really is nothing in this site to mark it as Christian. The cross (as others have noted) proves nothing. They also cite "commemorative" inscriptions of the name, Yeshu, but that is a name which was as common as dirt in the first century and the inscriptions on the ossuaries are not "commerative" mentions of Jesus but are actually the names of the dudes buried inside them.

This entire article is a joke. It's witnessing disguised as archaeology. It's really quite dishonest in the way it presents its facts.

Move along, folks, there's nothing to see here.

rlogan

Thanks Vork. Nice to have all the human resources we got here at IIDB.

Epictetus -

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=101434


Choose your battles wisely with Spin.

unregistered_user_1

The hell? You mean that's it?! It's just 3 letters that don't really mean anything? How are they able to get away with that shit? You'd think that someone would have called them on it, especially when they're supposed to be catering to "intellectuals" who'd supposedly have access to the knowledge that would catch that.

Something I was suspicious of when I read their opening lines! :Cheeky:


Mind you, in my defense, I should say that I kind of knew that this was not an unbiased source. Hell, neither was their source!

spin

Along with $cient010gy. It took Elrond less than ten years to throw the basis of that crud together. D14N3T1CS. Eeek. T-h-e-t-a-n-s indeed. You gotta get rid of 'em, all of 'em, in order to cross the M-E-S-T bridge and achieve your true potential. He was still writing additions to the system until his dying days. Complexity of a belief needn't take long at all. So Magus55, you can scrap that ploy as unsuccessful. History is against it.

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(And yes, Epictetus, conspiracies do happen. History was full of them. Brutus wasn't a lone knifeman. The wounds indicate that there was more than one person involved. The Watergate break-in wasn't just a burglary. Why accept the Warren Commission when it didn't have all the data available to it?)


spin