Richbee

The Unrivaled Resurrection

What do some of the world's greatest lawyers say about the event that changed history from BC to AD?

Resurrection Reasoning - Part 1

Without a doubt, the most unbelievable aspect of Christianity is in the life of Jesus himself. In His alleged resurrection from the dead, Jesus stands out more remarkably in history than any other human being. It is for this reason that the New Testament, perhaps more than any other book in history, has been subjected to some of the most rigorous historical and literary criticism.

Now, at the beginning of the 21st century, contemporary scholarship has shown that the New Testament firmly stands as the most historically attested work of the ancient world.

All New Testament scholars agree that the Gospels (biographies of Jesus) were written and circulated within Jesus’ generation, during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses. In fact, many scholars argue persuasively that some of the Gospels were written as early as the 50's A.D. (within about 30 years of Jesus’ death). This is significant because legends and myths usually take root in foreign lands, or centuries after an event. The legend of Santa Claus, for instance, developed centuries after the historical Saint Nicholas lived.

Thus, respected Oxford Professor Sherwin-White states that for the Gospels to be myths or legends, the rate of legendary accumulation would have to be “unbelievable” — more generations are needed. He maintains that it would have been without precedent anywhere in history for a myth to have grown up that fast.

In establishing the truthfulness of the New Testament writers as eyewitnesses to the events of their time, several points must be considered.

First, if the writers fabricated the New Testament Gospels, one would expect them to have construed the story in such a way that would have been most advantageous to their cause, rather than include embarrassing details which could defeat their purpose. However, there are plenty such features in the Gospel accounts which could have proved fatal had the narratives been false.


Throughout the early decades of Christianity, it seems the physical vacancy of the tomb was not in doubt by anyone.

Hotlink

[cite=Judah Etinger]Throughout the early decades of Christianity, it seems the physical vacancy of the tomb was not in doubt by anyone.[/cite]

Not one historical record from the first or second century is written attacking the factuality of the empty tomb or claiming discovery of the corpse. No one in the first century was saying that the tomb still contained Jesus’ body. Events seem to have conspired to place that beyond the reach of argument. The question was always, “What happened to the body?” Incidentally, the corpse of Jesus has never been found.

Thus, it is today widely recognized that the empty tomb of Jesus is a historical fact.

The New Testament critic, D.H. van Daalen, points out,

“It is extremely difficult to object to the empty tomb on historical grounds; those who deny it do so on the basis of theological or philosophical assumptions.”

Jacob Kremer, an Austrian scholar who has specialized in the study of the resurrection, also affirms:

“By far most scholars hold firmly to the reliability of the biblical statements about the empty tomb.”

And he lists 28 prominent scholars in support.

RED DAVE

From TomboyMom:
From Richbee:
Title of thread: "Ten (10) Facts about the Resurrection of Jesus Christ that skeptics cannot disprove!."

However, some of your "facts" do not pertain to the resurrection, certainly not directly, and several of them pertain to belief about the resurrection, which is also not the same as the resurrection itself.

Irelevant to the resurrection. Many people were crucified, i.e. Spartacus.

Again, irrelevant. Most people back then were put in a tomb.

Relevant. Not real evidence, but relevant.

Relevant. Beliefs contradictory, but relevant.

Relevant.

Relevant if true. Needs documentation. Which opponents?

Untrue and therefore irrelevant.

Irrelevant. And the persecution was relatively light compared to the way Christians have persecuted other religions that have persevered if not prospered.

Irrelevant. Many movements grow rapidly on the basis of false beliefs, e.g. naziism.

Relevant. But easily falsifiable.

RED DAVE

Richbee

Yawn. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Re: Jesus placed in a tomb

The Romans rarely would release a body to the family, but rather, just throw the criminals, as in most cases to the dogs or into a pit or garbage dump.

Jesus wasn't buried in just any tomb.

The Gospels tell us (M 27:57-61; P 15:42-47; L 23:50-56; J 19:38-42) that after the death of Jesus, Joseph of Arimathaea, wealthy, a member of the Jewish Council, asked Pilate for the body of Jesus, and buried it with honor in the tomb he had intended for himself.

Dear Internet Infidels,

I have never known such a....such a........fine group of "skeptics".........

Professor Thomas Arnold, former chair of history at Oxford, and author of the famous volumes, History of Rome, was skillfully educated in the study of historical facts.

Professor Arnold, stated,

"I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is PROVED BY BETTER AND FULLER EVIDENCE of every sort, than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."

hallq

Your claim about Sherwin-White is simply untrue. Here's the final footnote of his oft-quoted book:He admits that legends can form at an astonishing rate, but argues sometimes legends are exposed as such. This, though, does not prove they always will be, and we can be sure they sometimes won't be. After all, a legend isn't a legend unless some people believe it.

On the empty tomb, of course we don't have early writings questioning it - our earliest writings are all Christian, and the earliest pagan sources give the impression that the writers see Christianity as not worth debunking. This means nothing.

Spanky

Richbee forgot to post a link for his post #65
Here it is: http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2...sus-it-is.html

The Spankster knew that the words eluded mr. Richbee, thus prompting the spankster to Google it.

The Spankster sought, and the Spankster found. Forza Google!

RED DAVE

From Richbee:
Now you know how the vast majority of the world, which is nonchristian, views your historic fantasies.

From Richbee:
Okay. But that is irrelevant to the resurrection. He could have arisen from a ditch just as well as from a tomb.

From Richbee:
Considering that there is no evidence outside of the gospels for the existence of this person, this could easily be as much a fantasy as Parson Weems' tales about George Washington, which were written within 25 years of his death.

RED DAVE

Jack the Bodiless

No, they don't.

JoeWallack

JW:
I showed my 7 year old what you originally wrote before it was Edited and before she went off to second grade and asked her what it meant and she said it meant:

"You're a big, fat, meanie."

Now I understand that you've been to Oded Golan's upstairs bathroom and Jacque Lemaire's downstairs armoire looking for Andrew's testimony "that Jesus had risen from the dead."? But you've been gone for 2/3 days and 2/3 nights and I Am starting to get a little worried that Jesus may SOON return before you answer my questions.

You seem to be the Type of person who prefers Answering questions to asking them so I'll ask you a third time (which always works in the christian Bible):

Where is Andrew's testimony "that Jesus had risen from the dead."?

Also, does St. Mark describe Andrew as an Apostle?



Joseph

STORY, n.
A narrative, commonly untrue. The truth of the stories here following has, however, not been successfully impeached.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

gregor

Richbee

Yes, well, we're all converted by your cut and paste apologetics. Mission accomplished.

Tell Layman and metacrock hello from IIDB. Feel free to commit more logical fallacies (shifting goalposts, appeals to conservative authorities, circular arguments, et al.)

jackrabbit

Prove that the bible matches this definition.