Vorkosigan

This discussion is becoming entirely too heated. Participants please refrain from provocative comments that are unhelpful in furthering the discussion. We are also moving from BCH into other forum territory.

Toto

Is there any commentary on this?

The first two lines jump from 6 things the LORD hates to 7 that are detestable. It reminds me of Monty Python. Why the jump from 6 to 7?

And why these seven sins (not the seven deadly sins). I can see murder (hands that shed innocent blood), but why "haughty eyes"? And a lying tongue is bad, but not in the same category as murder, besides which the false witness seems a bit redundant.

Crucifiction

It is pretty redundant; and the wording is awkward. Actually, much of the Bible is like this; for a book that is supposed to be clear and understandable to readers, much of it is redundant, useless, and senseless.

JEST2ASK

The orginal post (IMO) makes a valid point in showing that Christians just like any other human will find ways to justify /excuse / rationalize their actions the irony ( :wave: ) of using scripture in this case when said behavior is explicitly condemed in other passages is (IMO) apparently lost on some respondants ... but then again what do expect when the (general Christian)empahsis of protecting marriage does not deal with the issues of the sancity of said unions but with denying others freedooms ... It is not a straw-man to argue that until measures are actually taken that address these issues than the motives of persons who proposes "Marriage protection" legislation should be questioned ...


(disclaimer) ... While the article cited and the OP did not mention marriage, it is an understanable tangent when trying to explain how to those on the outside view the hypocrisy evident (seemingly) by those claiming "noble" intentions ...

Shven

Homosexuality in the Bible

JEST2ASK

Great Link .... :thumbs:

A person with integrity who truly believed that homsexual acts were ok
would have quoted any of the passages listed and not Proverbs ...
not that I had much dobut about the insincerity of Mr Crouch
(and isn't that an interesting name in context of the news story)

I would really like to hear from JTurtle or any other X-ian on their opinion ...



Keeping the thread alive in the hopes that something meaningful will develop.

EvilSpock

Seems like Toto is "a man who stirs up dissention." As an atheist it's kind of silly that I'm the one pointing this out but maybe you should read Proverbs. Proverbs 6 is a poem, and part of a compilation, hence the problems in translation. Nit picking aside, Proverbs is full of advice that if followed would make the world a better place. Attacking Christians, the Bible (at least be specific instead of saying it's "useless and senseless") or Paul Crouch isn't going to make any of our lives any better. I have plenty of problems with Christianity and the weaknesses of Christians, but atheists should attempt to lead good, honorable lives as well.

As for crucifictions comments that the Bible is supposed to be "clear and understandable" it makes no such claim, in fact the opposite. Ever heard of a parable?

As far as the Paul Crouch issue goes, the accuser has some serious credibility issues, and not sure what the point is anyway except to attack Paul Crouch either as a homosexual or a hypocrite.

"Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you" Proverbs 4:6

Crucifiction

Yes, I have. However, the Bible makes it clear when a parable is being used; the rest is meant to be taken quite literally {Honestly, Fundies are pretty much right in that regard; the Bible was writen to be followed to the letter, at least the Old Testament, especially the Mosaic books.}

EvilSpock

Much of the Bible is meant to be taken literally, however that doesn't necessarily mean it's clear or intended to be easily understandable. Let's ignore for the moment the difficulties in translation, cultural problems, and the time that has passed since they were written. Otherwise, there are many difficult or prophetic passages, even in the Mosaic books, that are full of symbology. The Prophets and Revelation are excellent examples.