mountainman

I'd like to ask someone with access to an academic database for a list.
The list needs to be the list of all manuscripts, books, works of literature
referenced by Eusebius in his ecclesiastical excursions circa 324 CE, and
in this format: author, literature

For example:

Tertullion, "Adversus Marcionem"
Tertullion, "Adversus Praxean"
Apollonius of Tyana, "On Sacrifice"
Jesus Christ, "Letter to Agbarus",
Agbarus, "Letter to Jesus Christ",
AuthorUnknown, "Shepherd of Hermas"
etc
etc
etc

Alternatively there may be such a presentation available online at some
location, in which case a reference would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for any information,


Pete Brown
www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/article_029.htm

Ben C Smith

Hello, Pete.

I do not have such a list in database form, but Andrew Carriker has a good discussion of the library available to Eusebius in The Library of Eusebius of Caesarea (or via: amazon.co.uk). See especially chapter 9, pages 299-315, which is essentially a (long) list of works (almost all of them drawn up in your preferred format of author, work, except where the author is anonymous) judged accessible to Eusebius, conveniently subdivided into philosophical works, poetry, histories, Jewish works, Christian works, and contemporary documents. Works referenced by Origen (since he also wrote at Caesarea for a time), but not Eusebius, are also given with asterisks, even though Carriker of course thinks it probable that most of the books available to Origen at Caesarea would probably also have been available to Eusebius a century or so later.

The book is from the Supplements to Vigiliae Christianae series from Brill, 2003.

Ben.

mountainman

Thanks for the reference Ben. Ideally I am looking for another list very
comparable to one posted here a few years back by Vorkosigan on 27-AUG-2004 in a thread entitled Would Eusebius have fabricated an organised church history to please Constantine initiated by Ted Hoffman.

(Moderator: How does one hyper-link to this article?? Thanks.) <De nada> A13

This listed the authors. I'd like the authors AND their works, which
I'd understand also does the reference you have provided below, not
in electronic format.

Thanks again Ben,


Pete Brown

Toto

Carniker's dissertation appears to be online:

http://digitalcommons.libraries.colu...ns/AAI9930688/

eta: what article do you want to link to? You can just copy the URL, or you can hotlink it using vbbcode

mountainman

Thanks Toto. I would be specifically interested in obtaining an electronic
version of chapter 9, pages 299-315, as outlined by Ben above.

You see, if I am to assert that the entire contents of first, second and
third year christian literature is a fiction then I need to list out every
single item of christian literature generated under this copyright notice
during that period of time, by author, and writings of that author.

Essentially I'd like to compile a list of works of literature attributable to
all authors listed on this list:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/article_029.htm

The christian authors are coded C or CB for bishop, and these are the
authors for whom those who consider a Eusebian fiction hypothesis
must show their literary works generated in whole, or in part, by our
Eusebius in the fourth century (or perhaps in a subsequent century,
by later author of ecclesiastical fiction).

This page outlines much of the material:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/
but the format is not immediately amenable.


Thanks.



Pete Brown

Toto

That isn't the same work that Ben referenced, although it appears to be the same material, or similar. It looks like you can buy a .pdf version online for $35, or find a library that will allow you to download it.

Copyright ?!?

mountainman

Thanks, I am only looking for the list of authors and their works,
only a few pages of that work, or an equivalent list sourced
elsewhere.



From my perspective, any author who mentions the Eusebian copyrighted
word "christian" (or tribe thereof) in the first three centuries, is simply a
Eusebian profile -- a fictitious author through whom Eusebius is speaking.

Therefore I'd like to eventually derive an exhaustive list of all authors,
and each literary work of each author, who either mention "christians"
in the period 0-300, or whom Eusebius would have us believe wrote
about christians in the same period.

Hope this makes sense,



Pete Brown

S.C.Carlson

Not to get away from your point, but I think it would be a little less confusing if you would say "trademarked" instead of "copyrighted." Single words are not copyrightable, but they can be trademarked to identify certain goods.

Stephen Carlson

mountainman

Your point is well taken after adequate reflection upon the
notional differences ascribed to the intellectual properties
copyright and trade mark, respectively with reference to
single words. Thanks for making this distinction, and it
certainly does enhance the issue.

Phrases, being multiple words, represent the proverbial
fractal basin boundary. For example the phrase "The tribe
of christians" is an important atomic level asset in the
integrity of the trade mark traditionally associated with
the history of christianity.

Yet such phrases, even if they are destined to become
trade marks, must always be born, as it were, in the
process of literary creation by an author, in whom is
normally vested copyright of the work.

Such terms are best first popularised by very heavy duty
intellectual property industrialists, for example, say
Josephus.

Both forms of intellectual property attract the kudos
or otherwise of conventional priority deadlines normally
decided in accordance to the date of the work for copy
right (or its registration if req'd) or its TMK application.

These deadlines are CRITICAL with respect to the
intellectual property and its value.

It is notable that the birth of jesus was added to the
register by those who professed authorship via a
copyright of "christian related issues" to authodoxy
only at Nicaea.

But from my perspective, it is even more notable that
the birth of Apollonius of Tyana was deleted from the
same register, and quite presumably by the same party
who performed the corresponding add.

I have compiled what attempts to be a complete
bibliography of the historical personage known as
Apollonius of Tyana here:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/essene...of%20Tyana.htm

The lost writings of Apollonius alone can testify what
form of intellectual property was deleted, and replaced
in the time (possibly as late as Constantine) with what
we know to be the literature and IP of christianity.

However this Apollonius tangentiation is not in any way
critical to the specification of the ADD of the trade mark
term christianity in the reign of Constantine.

They may surely be treated and viewed separately.



Pete Brown
http://www.mountainman.com.au/namaste_2006.htm
NAMASTE: "The spirit in me honors the spirit in you"