Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 07-22-2010, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

And, Stephen, as regards interpretation of the gospel storyline - or any literature that requires interpretation - it's anyones game. And I, for one, have no real interest in what someone hundreds of years ago interpreted such and such a text as meaning. We live in different mental worlds. And yes, we have to have as 'true' a reconstruction of history as we can possibly have - but after that - and of course the accurate translations of the relevant documents - its anyones game. Interpretation is just that interpretation - and no one has the final say whether the interpretation is 'true' or not - only history can perhaps shed some light....

But, how in the world can you have "no interest in what someone hundreds of years such and such a text as meaning" when [b]history is directly dependent upon some interpretation of the past whether of writings, artifacts or a physical structure?

Interpretation is surely not just interpretation it is the ESSENCE of history. People can disagree with any interpretation but it MUST be done.

History cannot shed light on interpretation it must be the other way. Historical accuracy is directly related to accurate interpretation.

maryhelena · 08-22-2010, 11:22 AM

Since posting re Philip the Tetrarch - Philip the Tetrarch: The Hasmonean King Agrippa the Great I have come across an interesting article that deals with the dating for Philip in current versions of Josephus. Philip's rule as Tetrarch can now be viewed as 37 years from his sole rule in 1 bc after the death of Herod the Great - leading to 37 ce - the year not of his death but of a continuing rule as Agrippa I.

Counting from a co-regency with Herod (likewise Antipas) in 4 bc, Philip ruled 37 years as sole ruler from 1 bc, 4 years as part of a co-regency from 4 bc, and 7/8 years as Agrippa I from 37 ce. Altogether 48/49 years. (7 x 7 = 49 years - echoes of Daniel. ch.9...)

Quote:

Chronos, kairos, Christos 2, Ray Summers, Jerry Vardaman, 1998 (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Josephus re-examined: Unraveling the Twenty-Second Year of Tiberius

David W. Beyer

Page 95 and 96

The veracity of early editions of Josephus’ Antiquites of the Jews is beyond question. The theorizing era of Herodian chronology is drawing to a close. The linchpin argument for the death of Herod in 4 B.C. has been pulled. In addition to the pre-1544 editions of the Antiquities, other dominant factors include the lunar eclipse, the antedating or numismatic evidence and the coregency thesis of Filmer. Modern editions of the Antiquities have incorrectly stated not only the date of Philip’s death but also the length of his reign. As a consequence, the position of Philip’s chronology holds in the dating of Herod’s death is now open to revision. A coin of Philip’s thirty-seventh year proves his reign antedated to 1 B.C. The 1470-1514 editions support his tetrarchial appointment in A.D.1 de jure. Manuscripts dating from the twelfth to figteenthy centuries along with the 1475-1511 editions support the de facto inception of Philip’s reign in A.D.4. Widespread sociopolitical instability in the region of Herod’s kingdom was a key factor. Yet it must be kept in mind that a complete understanding of this period will never be gained, and full centainity in the dating of Philip’s first years cannot be realized. Herod’s death date can be safely placed in late January or early February, 1 B.C., some eighteen days or more after Herod fell gravely ill following the total lunal eclipse of 10 January I B.C.The early church fathers have been vindicated. Jesus was born in 2 B.C.......

Page 90/91

The early editions of Antiquities in the British Library’s possession have a chronology of their own that develops in fives stages...

Year of Tiberius____Years Reigned________Period of Publication
22___________________32_______________ca. 1150-1489
22___________________35_______________1470-1514
22___________________32/35____________1513-1519
22___________________22_______________1534-1545 (+1608)
20___________________37_______________1544-present

Preview on Google books.

Bottom line in all of this is that dating for Philip the Tetrarch is questionable in current versions of Josephus. As can be seen in the above comparison of early documents, the whole question of Philip was - and remains - problematic....

The year 6 coins of Agrippa I:

With the Josephan chronology mix up re dating Philip - with the current dating for Philip's death after 37 year rule in 34 ce (from 4 bc) then the possibility does arise that Philip became Agrippa 1 in 34 ce - made King by Tiberius. His 6th year as Agrippa 1 would then be 40/41 ce - the year in which he became King of Judea - and issued those canopy coins.....

There is a coin of Antipas dated to his 45th year - counting from 4 bc that goes to 40/41 ce - the year in which Agrippa I becomes King of Judea - possibly after the death of Antipas when Agrippa 1 (Philip the Tetrarch) would be the last remaining direct heir of Herod the Great....)

(the above article is not above question re some of its conclusions but the dating re the early Josephan documents is where the interest lies......)

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