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Old 01-20-2008, 01:48 PM   #341
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Secondly, as far as I know, no one has any explanation for the 153 number in John 21;11, and I have no idea what it could mean, either to "pagans" or Jews. Perhaps it just means "a lot".
It has some possible ties to Pythagorism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_of_153_fish
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Old 01-20-2008, 01:49 PM   #342
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In the earlier Pythagorus version, Mr. P talked the fishermen into letting the fish go by correctly estimating their numbers.

The inclusion of this story into John shows that the early Christians did not mind borrowing (well, stealing) from pagan stories.
http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=223795
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Old 01-20-2008, 01:54 PM   #343
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They are written in Greek.
So were most Jewish texts at this time. During the 200 years prior to the writing of the New Testament texts Jewish texts were increasingly written in Greek. This is why the Jewish cannon ends after the book of Daniel, because later compilers used the language as a criteria to determine what could be canonized. The Catholic Old Testament apocrypha is composed largely of Jewish works written in Greek.

Also, by the 1st century only 18% of tombs in Jerusalem were inscribed in Hebrew or Aramaic, most were inscribed in Greek.
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:00 PM   #344
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Secondly, as far as I know, no one has any explanation for the 153 number in John 21;11, and I have no idea what it could mean, either to "pagans" or Jews. Perhaps it just means "a lot".
You might then want to have a look at the discussion of proposals from Jerome to modern times that appears on pp. 401-403 of G.R. Beasley-Murray's Word Biblical Commentary on GJohn (or via: amazon.co.uk), not to mention its counterpart on pp. 1074-1076 in Ray Brown's Anchor Commentary on John (or via: amazon.co.uk) and on pp. 1231-33 in Craig Keener's Hendrickson commentary (or via: amazon.co.uk).

Jeffrey
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:04 PM   #345
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These letters are written in Greek. There are many
commentators who argue there are Hellenic motives
in Paul. Paul is a stooge. A literary plant. How many
of his letters, once thought of with the highest integrity,
are now classified as outright blatant forgeries?
all of them are outright forgeries.

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How can people be so nieve?
as one sees from the high number of authentic-Pauline-believers,
and believers in Galilean origin of Christianity,
the naivity of mainliners knows no limit.

The marcionite (more original) version of the epistles knows no
'according to Scripture', it's a fraudulent interpolation by
Judaising Roman Catholics like Justin Martyr, Polycarp, and Irenaeus.
Marcion was already aware of an abomination going on
in certain communities that judaised Christianity, and opposed to it.


Klaus Schilling
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:07 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman View Post

These letters are written in Greek. There are many
commentators who argue there are Hellenic motives
in Paul. Paul is a stooge. A literary plant. How many
of his letters, once thought of with the highest integrity,
are now classified as outright blatant forgeries?
all of them are outright forgeries.
And your evidence for this global claim is ...?

Jeffrey
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:07 PM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi151 View Post
Secondly, as far as I know, no one has any explanation for the 153 number in John 21;11, and I have no idea what it could mean, either to "pagans" or Jews. Perhaps it just means "a lot".
It has some possible ties to Pythagorism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_of_153_fish
I think this is an interesting subject. I noticed something kind of weird and would like productive comments. I started a new thread about it here.
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:28 PM   #348
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So were most Jewish texts at this time. During the 200 years prior to the writing of the New Testament texts Jewish texts were increasingly written in Greek. This is why the Jewish cannon ends after the book of Daniel, because later compilers used the language as a criteria to determine what could be canonized. The Catholic Old Testament apocrypha is composed largely of Jewish works written in Greek.
Yes. I'll add this: In Romans 10:13 Paul quoted Joel 2:32 from the Old Testament. But he misunderstood the meaning of the word “Lord” because the LXX reads “Lord” and not Yahweh.
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:49 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Malachi151 View Post
Quote:
They are written in Greek.
So were most Jewish texts at this time. During the 200 years prior to the writing of the New Testament texts Jewish texts were increasingly written in Greek. This is why the Jewish cannon ends after the book of Daniel, because later compilers used the language as a criteria to determine what could be canonized. The Catholic Old Testament apocrypha is composed largely of Jewish works written in Greek.

Also, by the 1st century only 18% of tombs in Jerusalem were inscribed in Hebrew or Aramaic, most were inscribed in Greek.
Thus if the authors of the gospels at the least were
very Hellenised Jews, why seek Jewish explications
of the story, and theme, and origins?

Best wishes,


Pete Brown
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:50 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by schilling.klaus View Post
all of them are outright forgeries.
And your evidence for this global claim is ...?

Jeffrey
Jeffrey,

It is a possibility that may as well be factored in
since we have today the use of computers by
which we may entertain more than one myopia
at the one time.

Best wishes,



Pete Brown
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