Johnny Skeptic

I tend to find that your assumption that a God would use copies of copies of ancient texts as a primary means of communciating with humans is utterly absurd.

ThinkingMan

Why Jesus' Miracles aren't Credible:


1. Jesus’ techniques are inconsistent.
a. In some cases, Jesus claims the person is healed because of their faith (Luke 8:43-48). In some cases, Jesus claims a person to be healed because of someone else’s faith (Matt 15:21-28). In some cases, Jesus heals someone when no one present has faith (Luke 7:11-17).
b. Jesus touches a leper to heal him in Luke 5:12-14, but he doesn't touch the ten lepers in Luke 17:11-19.
c. Jesus cures blindness with a command in Luke 18:35-43. In Matt 9:27-31, he cures blindness by touching blind men's eyes. In Mark 8:22-26, Jesus lays his hands on a blind man and spits on his eyes. In John 9:1-23, Jesus makes mud out of dirt and puts it on a blind man's eyes.
d. Jesus fails when attempting to heal a man in Mark 8:22-26.

2. The details of the accounts reflect superstitious beliefs.
a. Jesus cures a fever by rebuking it (Luke 4:38-39).
b. A woman's crooked back is thought to be caused by a spirit (Luke 13:10-17).
c. A boy’s epilepsy is thought to be caused by a demon (Matt 17:14-20).
d. In Mark 7:31-37, Jesus encounters a deaf man who has a speech impediment. The speech impediment was most likely the result of his deafness, yet Jesus touches the man’s tongue to cure the impediment.

3. Jesus’ healing is similar to that of charlatan faith healers.
a. Jesus’ involvement cannot be supported in some of the recoveries. In cases where Jesus is not present his involvement is attested by the approximate time (John 4:43-54, Luke 7:1-10, Matt 15:21-28).
b. Jesus sometimes tells the cured person to leave before their recovery can be verified (Luke 8:43-48).
c. There are no follow-ups with cured people.
d. Jesus often cures people out of sight from prying eyes (Mark 7:31-37, Matt 9:18,23).
e. Many of Jesus’ cures involve shouting (Mark 7:31-37, Matt 9:18,23, Luke 7:11, John 11:1-43).
f. Many of Jesus’ cures involve spitting (Mark 8:22-26, John 9:1-23, Mark 7:31-37).
g. The healed people often fall down or convulse, indicating that Jesus uses the power of suggestion (Mark 9:17-29, Mark 1:23-28).

4. The miracle stories contain strikingly similar elements which suggests that some miracle accounts are fabricated propaganda.
a. The gospels emphasize gentile faith and demonize the Pharisees. In Matt 15:21-28, Jesus focuses on the fact that a woman of great faith is a Canaanite. In Luke 17:11-19, the only leper out of ten who thanks Jesus is a Samaritan. In Luke 7:9, Jesus says that a centurion has more faith than anyone in Israel.
b. The stories often conclude in a message commenting on the appropriateness of Mosaic Law. (Luke 6:6-11, Luke 13:10-17, Luke 14:1-6, John 5:1-18).

5. The gospels accounts of the same miracles are inconsistent.
a. Luke 22:49-51 records Jesus reattaching a man's severed ear. The same story of the severed ear is told in John 18:10-11, but no miracle is mentioned.

Roger Pearse

???

All the best,

Roger Pearse

ThinkingMan

Just something for you to think about.

Roger Pearse

Are you going to address my question?

ThinkingMan

Your question, as I understand it:

Do I define "credible" as: What people running the US media in the late 20th century referred to as 'normal'?

No.

My working definition of "credible" is an account that is internally consistent, not based on superstitious beliefs, doesn't contain earmarks of quackery, and doesn't suggest fabrication.

Roger Pearse

But isn't that a 'yes', actually? For what else is that sentence but an appeal to those sorts of values?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

ThinkingMan

It's an appeal to the value of logic. It is insulting for you to suggest that the "US media" dictates my thought process. I couldn't care less what the position of your "US media" is.

There's nothing wrong with setting limits on beliefs. Examples of good limits would be that the beliefs exhibit at least some level of internally consistency, that they lack of superstitious elements and that they aren't part of some scam or propaganda. I don't see how anyone could have a problem with that.