trexmaster

Earlier today I was musing about Abrahamic mythology, when it occurred to me that the behavior of Satan in the Bible is remarkably like that of the mythical spirits commonly known as genies. When we encounter Satan in the Bible, he is roaming the wilderness and often tempts people with gifts such as knowledge or power. He is also commonly associated with fire. Likewise, genies are said to roam the wilderness and offer to grant wishes for people; they are also described as being made of fire. Could the concept of Satan in Judaism and Christianity have a common origin with the legendary genies? We usually associate genies as being Arabian, but it also appears that they appear in the religion of the Assyrians, so I think it is possible that belief in them was common among the Semitic peoples.

If it does in fact become apparent that the Judeo-Christian Devil shares common memetic origin with genies, what would be the ramifications of that? Would fundie Christians now be claiming that lamps are tools of Satan?

Malachi151

I somewhat doubt it, however you will notice that there is no mentions of the devil or of devils in the "Old Testament" and Satan is really something quite different in the OT than in the NT.

Fire isn't really associated with the devil in scripture so much as it is in popular culture, and this comes from Greek and Roman ideas of Hades and Tartarus, which were the underworld where souls went after they died. The underworld was believed to be a place of fire and brimstone because volcanoes were believed to be portals to the underworld and of course volcanoes are places of fire and brimstone. It was believed that rivers of fire flowed in the underworld of course because rivers of fire flowed from volcanoes. Thus, fire became associated with the devil.

As for the wilderness, this also holds a special place in Jewish mythology and also I think this all stems from the one scene in Mark composed of only a few lines:

I think the whole point of this scene served merely as a plot element to get Jesus away from John the Baptist while JtB was being arrested to have a plausible reason for why Jesus wouldn't have helped to prevent his arrest.

But nevertheless, I do think that popular notions of Satan have taken on the qualities of various local demons and gods and tricksters like genies, so in the popular sense yes I'm sure that some popular notions of Satan have probably been influenced by notions of genies.

Jeffrey Gibson

I take it you mean jinns?

When we encounter Satan in the Bible, he is roaming the wilderness and often tempts people with gifts such as knowledge or power.

Can you show me where, please, outside of Mk. 1:12, the "Bible" presents Satan as "roaming in the wilderness", let alone "tempting" people other than Jesus there with any degree of frequency, let alone often, in the specific way you say he does?

And where in the Bible is Satan associated with fire, let alone said to be made of fire as Islamic thought says jinns (but not the Islamic equivalent to Satan, i.e., Iblis?) was.

Moreover, what is your source for claiming that jinns "tempt" people in any way at all, let alone often in the desert?

Jeffrey

Jeffrey Gibson

Could you please give me some primary sources from Greek and Latin literature that document this claims? Is there anything in say, book 11 of the Odyssey (the story of Odysseus at/in the house of death) or Book 24 (where the shades of the slain suitors are being led by Hermes into the underworld) that shows this?

Jeffrey

Newfie

Many cultures had similar, magical creatures that dwelled in the wilderness and could lead to the destruction of people. Like the fiery, satyrs, or Aos Si. In the Canadian arctic where I use to live the Inuit once believed in the tuurngait. After the priests came the tuurngait were seen as demons for a while. Some elders still believe in them and the “little ones”, like elves, who hide tools around campsites, and the qallupilluit who lead children away.

It’s not limited to hunter/gatherer groups either. Aviators envisioned gremlins causing mechanical failures in aircraft. We might think of it as "misfortune" or bad luck personified.

Devils many have been rooted in this kind of belief.

Potoooooooo

were the biblical satyrs, the Sh'lrlm this type of creature?

Newfie

My understanding is that the Sh'lrlm could refer to a number of things, including rather ordinary hairy, mountain goats that, in one of those wonderful leaps of translation into English, may have ended up as ‘satyr’. The biblical references translated as satyr appear to me to be likely referring to just ordinary goats, but satyr does stir the imagination, doesn't it?

Of course, I’ve also heard that it could refer to devil worshipers living like pariahs or even characters like the Baptist living off of the land without a care for their personal grooming, thus the translation ‘hairy one.’

Other theories I’ve heard of include surviving Neanderthal groups and bands of apes, which is linked to the various ‘wild man’ legends including the yeti, Bigfoot, trolls, and even werewolves. Orangutan’s have even been said to act like satyrs; sexually attracted to human women, and there has been evidence that other species of humans may have survived until relatively recently, so perhaps the bible is referring to a similar species of ape or human. Creationists would love evidence to support that, wouldn't they?

Interestingly, Satan is often depicted as a satyr-like creature, which may have more to do with associating pagan beliefs with the devil than anything else, but the theme of human-animal hybrids living in wastelands as a danger to real humans seems pretty common, and the Sh'lrlm could just be the Hebrew version from that time.