Ben C Smith

The attempt to derail the thread, if there is one, is yours. This thread is not about proving the historicity or nonhistoricity of Apollonius. Or of Jesus, for that matter. It is about whether introducing fictional elements (elements that did not happen historically) into a text makes that text fiction.

If you doubt that Apollonius existed at all, then for the purposes of this thread please ignore him. Unless you can keep your argument to the matter at hand, namely the genre of the texts.

Ben.

aa5874

If the thread has nothing to do with Apollonius, then it should be noted that it was you who introduced the character called Apollonius in to the thread.

You started the thread and in post #8, you introduced Apollonius.

Something has gone wrong, Ben. Your have developped a predictable pattern.

dog-on

Ben, if you have a story with some, obviously, fictional elements. Wouldn't you need some fairly strong evidence to show why any other part of that text should be considered trustworthy?

Ben C Smith

It has nothing to do with the historicity of Apollonius. It has to do with how to treat texts with fictional elements.

No, you are not reading carefully enough; and you even quoted my very words. I introduced the biography of Apollonius. A biography is a text; that is what this thread is about, texts. To demonstrate the historicity of Apollonius requires texts, naturally, but is not actually about the texts; it is about the historical (or nonhistorical) figure.

The historicity of Apollonius, strictly speaking, does not belong to this thread; it belongs to another thread, the OP of which I am in the process of writing up even now. You should see it shortly.

Ben.

Ben C Smith

That is what this thread is about. Thank you.

So here is a question for you. Scroll back and read my quotation of Burridge regarding Plutarch and the death of Cato. He contends (following other scholars on the topic) that Plutarch modelled his death after the death of Socrates and included several obviously nonhistorical details. What do those details do to the the Life of Cato? Do they turn it into a Greek novel? An epic? A poem? A modern John Grisham thriller?

Ben.

dog-on

The ancient equivalent of historical fiction, I suppose.

aa5874

Something has gone radically wrong.

In the very first sentence you claim that the introduction of Apollonius has nothing to do with the historicity of Apollonius, but just with the treatment of the texts, yet immediately afterwards, you claim that the historicity of Apollonius requires text.

You have developped a predictable pattern.

Ben C Smith

Yes, demonstrating the historicity of Apollonius requires texts. But speaking about texts does not require a demonstration of the historicity of Apollonius. The former is the topic of this thread; the latter is not. Please nod if you understand the words I am saying.

Ben.

Ben C Smith

Good. Now, on what are you basing this supposition?

Ben.

dog-on

The inclusion of fictional material and the modeling of events based on previously written and unrelated stories.