Toto

There are more choices than literal truth vs. con job. There are many explanations for the historical growth of Christianity that do not involve a real person who was crucified. As for Jesus changing your life, this is getting beyond history.

. . .

This may get beyond the purpose of this forum, but what do you think the directions were that Jesus gave? Where did you find them?

Diogenes the Cynic

You're setting up a false dichotomy between "con job" and "Christianity must be true." There is nothing in the the origin and spraed of Christianity which does not follow perfectly normal sociological parameters.
There are people who say that Krishna changed their life. What makes your experience any more valid than theirs?
That's also what you see from people who are "saved" by Krishna, Scientology, Wicca, Allah and Zen. What's the difference?
Why do so many religious people say this?

"spiritual" and "religious" are the same thing. There is no semantic difference between those two words.
It works just as well with Rama. Why is that?
The answer is yes. They work every bit as well.
They are.
You're not very educated about other religions then.
Neither Muslims nor Jews say "they hid the body."
I don't know what you mean by "divine" but every psychological payoff which people claim to find in Christianity is also claimed in every other religion on earth.

Sheshbazzar

Not a 'Christian' but,
No, "this absurd story", even this "greatest story ever told", exists for the sole purpose of leading honest men to ponder the far weightier matters of true justice, and of true compassion, and of true mercy.
And to inspire respect for that invisible power inherent in steadfastly holding an honest hope in the face of apathy and despair, to rekindle the human spirit when sunk deep into the pit of defeat, and to grasp 'victory' even out of the jaws of death.
The "help", the "deliverance" and the "salvation" of Yah, as recorded in the Law, and the Prophets, and the Writings was, and is always available to "whosoever will call upon His name", The N.T. has served well to extend this promise world-wide and to all of mankind.
Men demanded and created the convoluted stories, the elaborate rituals and the blood sacrifices. Yes, they plagiarized their pagan neighbors for fables and rituals to weave into their fabricated 'history', They even put their words into His mouth, and into the mouths of His prophets, words which He did not speak, This also was Yah's doing and it is marvelous in my view.
To me, the name YAH, represents the TRUTH personified, that Truth in which all that has existence, exists, from the beginning, Containing all of knowledge, all of wisdom, being fully aware of absolutely everything, A dimension of BEING, that is also SELF-aware.
Being sentient by nature, sharing the best and the worst that humanity can devise (even the smallest of our thoughts are permanently recorded on the fabric of reality) imbued with mercy and compassion for our limited grasp of reality, has at times reached out to us, and some became believers, and some also become unbelievers, this is also a work of the Truth wrought in reality.
Some insultingly refer to The Elohim of the ages as a "Sky Daddy" in this they show off their ignorance, likewise being subject to the absolute dictates of that Truth their lips are denying the existence of.
Ameth, Sheshbazzar

shamrockhoax

:huh:

This lead nothing to the credability to his existance. You can actively practice any religous doctrine in the world but that doesn't make it true or right.

You found comfort in Jesus, great I'm happy for you, but entirely irrelevant to the question. Did Jesus exist? Yes, people wrote about him, but were they being honest? I'm not out to disprove christianity or any other religion, I am after truth. To me that is the most important thing.

While I was a christian I was in search of something and I found it in an anthropology class: Atheism. Does that cancel out the words of Jesus I use to follow? Am I more right than you? No. Will me being an atheist bring anything to the table about the existance of Jesus. No. I am after truth, not subjective axioms from an obviously biased book about a man who might not have existed.

The question you might want to ask yourself, if Jesus didn't exist were does that place you with your faith?

It is also quite possible to keep listening to Jesus and mutilate your body beyond recognition, common sense should prevail. :thumbs:

shamrockhoax

Thanks to everyone who has replied, I've got a lot of research on my hands. As I figured I would.

Anat

jonesg, for a compilation of Talmudic references to persons with some similarity to Jesus see Yeshu-Wikipedia. There appear to be at least 3 different people, supposed to have lived at different times.

I agree with others that there are other options besides literal truth and total fabrication. There can be a story based on facts and a slanted interpretation of those facts, a story that is based on an exagerated recounting of actual events and other possibilities. And even a fictional story can be very deeply inspiring. People's lives were changed by reading literature they knew to be fictional. They may have identified with a character, or found the way of life described in the story attractive or they may have been brought to see a new perspective. What matters to me is what those people actually do as a result of said inspiration, regardless of whether the source of inspiration is physical or psychological reality.

Killer Mike

If you were to take an Origins of Christianity course at say Harvard, Yale, or any major university you will be taught Jesus did exist. I mean what reliable evidence do we have that Christopher Columbus existed? There were dozens of people claiming to be Messiahs at that time. It seems more likely to me that at least one of them would have gained a small following of believers and a new religion would have evolved. I would recommend you keep your studies within the mainstream of scholarship. Why approach the Origins of Christianity any differently then you would any other subject?

GermanHeretic

And that is important why?

Jesus may have lived and may have said everything and done something of what's recorded in the NT. That changes nothing. He surely did not do everything stated there, like the water/wine trick, the dying/resurrection trick, the getting born without a father trick, the being god and being man and being something else to get a nice magical number trick, ...

Krosis

Not following your OWN ADVICE again I see...

-K

Vorkosigan

I don't confine myself to the mainstream in any field; that's just silly. Further, the "mainstream" of NT scholarship is composed entirely of Christians who are sworn (by the Nicene Creed) to the historicity of Jesus. In no other field of scholarship that I know of do the majority of members take an oath to specific scholarly positions on a regular basis.

Vorkosigan