Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 08-02-2007, 08:09 AM

Was there one? What happened to xianity in Paul's alleged home town?

wordy · 08-02-2007, 08:43 AM

Maybe it is impossible to set one up where everyone know you?

Clivedurdle · 08-02-2007, 08:57 AM

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The settlement was located at the crossing of several important trade routes, linking Anatolia and beyond to Syria

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In historical times, the city was first ruled by the Hittites, Assyria and then the Persian Empire. Tarsos was the seat of a Persian satrapy from 400 BC onward. Indeed Xenophon records that in 401 BC, when Cyrus the Younger marched against Babylon, the city was governed by King Syennesis in the name of the Persian monarch.

Alexander the Great came through with his armies in 333 BC and came near meeting his death here after a bath in the Cydnus. By this time Tarsus was already Greek, and as part of the Seleucid Empire became more and more Hellenized; Strabo praises the cultural level of Tarsus in this period with its philosophers, poets and linguists. The schools of Tarsos rivalled Athens and Alexandria. 2 Maccabees (4:30) records its revolt in about 171 BC against Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who had renamed the town Antiochia on the Cydnus. In his time the library of Tarsus held 200,000 books, a huge collection of scientific works.

[edit] Rome

Pompey subjected it to Rome and Tarsus became capital of the Roman province of Cilicia (Caput Ciliciae), the metropolis where the governor resided. To flatter Julius Caesar, it took the name Juliopolis; it was here that Cleopatra and Mark Antony met, the scene of the celebrated feasts they gave during the construction of their fleet. In AD 66, the inhabitants received Roman citizenship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarsus_in_Cilicia

Ray Moscow · 08-02-2007, 09:57 AM

There is a site -- foundations of a house -- in Tarsus that claims to be Paul's childhood home. (I have some photos packed away somewhere.) Of course all such attributions were made long, long after the fact.

Tarsus was supposedly a hotbed of Mithraism in Paul's day, and some have supposed that Paul became acquainted with these sorts of "mysteries" there.

Edit: I don't know anything about early Christianity in Tarsus, or even if there was any.

Ray

Clivedurdle · 08-02-2007, 12:46 PM

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Tarsus was supposedly a hotbed of Mithraism in Paul's day

That can't be right can it?

Clivedurdle · 08-02-2007, 12:55 PM

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Mithraism

"Spirit of Spirit, if it be your will, give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again - and the sacred spirit may breathe in me."
Prayer to Mithras

"Mithraism and Judaism merged and became Christianity. Jesus, son of the Hebrew sky God, and Mithras, son of Ormuzd are both the same myth. The rituals of Christianity coincide with the earlier rituals of Mithraism, including the Eucharist and the Communion in great detail. The language used by Mithraism was the language used by Christians. St Paul as the first "Christian" bears much of the responsibility for merging the two in his preaching and teaching, and also comes from Tarsus, a major Mithraist center.

The idea of a sacrificed saviour is Mithraist, so is the symbolism of bulls, rams, sheep, the blood of a transformed saviour washing away sins and granting eternal life, the 7 sacraments, the banishing of an evil host from heaven, apocalyptic end of time when God/Ormuzd sends the wicked to hell and establishes peace. Roman Emperors, Mithraist then Christian, mixed the rituals and laws of both religions into one. Emperor Constantine established 25th of Dec, the birthdate of Mithras, to be the birthdate of Jesus too. The principal day of worship of the Jews, The Sabbath, was replaced by the Mithraistic Sun Day as the Christian holy day. The Catholic Church, based in Rome and founded on top of the most venerated Mithraist temple, wiped out all competing son-of-god religions within the Roman Empire, giving us modern literalist Christianity."

"Mithraism" by Vexen, 2002

"It was in Tarsus that the Mysteries of Mithras had originated, so it would have been unthinkable that Paul would have been unaware of the remarkable similarities we have already explored between Christian doctrines and the teachings of Mithraism. [Footnote:] Tarsus was the capital of Cilicia, where, according to Plutarch [46-125CE], the Mithraic Mysteries were being practiced as early as 67BCE"

"Jesus Mysteries" by Freke & Gandy [more info], p199

Paul conversion an interpretation of Yeshua's death, his old Mithraistic beliefs and the Messiah/christ confusion combined to forge a new religion distinctly separate from all the various sects of Judaism. The fact that Judas was not killed, but Yeshua (the real king, in the eyes of Paul) led Paul to believe he had been the sacrificed christ sent from Mithra/God.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/paul.html

Magdlyn · 08-02-2007, 01:01 PM

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Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Quote:

Tarsus was supposedly a hotbed of Mithraism in Paul's day

That can't be right can it?

from wiki:

Pompey subjected it to Rome and Tarsus became capital of the Roman province of Cilicia (Caput Ciliciae), the metropolis where the governor resided. To flatter Julius Caesar, it took the name Juliopolis; it was here that Cleopatra and Mark Antony met, the scene of the celebrated feasts they gave during the construction of their fleet. In AD 66, the inhabitants received Roman citizenship.

When the province of Cilicia was divided, Tarsus remained the civil and religious metropolis of Cilicia Prima,...

And

The Greek historian Plutarch (CE 46-127) wrote about pirates of Cilicia, the coastal province in the southeast of Anatolia, who practiced Mithraic "secret rites" around 67 BCE: "They likewise offered strange sacrifices; those of Olympus I mean; and they celebrated certain secret mysteries, among which those of Mithras continue to this day, being originally instituted by them". Plutarch was convinced that the Cilician pirates had originated the Mithraic rituals that were being practiced in Rome by his day.

Sounds like the timing was right.

ETA, I see you answered your own question while I was looking it up! Damn

Clivedurdle · 08-02-2007, 01:27 PM

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ETA, I see you answered your own question while I was looking it up! Damn

But instead of a minor place with a few Pirates that might have led to a proto Mithraism we have the acknowledged founder of Xianity from a huge powerful city on major trade routes with strong Persian Greek and Roman influences and a library of two hundred thousand books?

Very interesting silence!

(And what does Plutarch say about Xianity?)

Toto · 08-02-2007, 01:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

...
(And what does Plutarch say about Xianity?)

Plutarch is on Remsberg's list of People Who Did Not Mention Jesus. (See this thread).

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PLUTARCH

Plutarch of Chaeronea wrote many works on history and philosophy in Rome and Boetia in about 90-120 CE.

Plutarch wrote about influential Roman figures, including some contemporary to Jesus,
Plutarch wrote on Oracles (prophesies),
Plutarch wrote on moral issues,
Plutarch wrote on spiritual and religious issues.

Plutarch's writings also include a fascinating piece known as the "Vision of Aridaeus", a spiritual journey, or out of body experience, or religious fantasy -
[dead link removed]

If Plutarch knew of Jesus or the Gospel events, it is highly likely he would have mentioned them.

Rating: PROBABLY SHOULD have mentioned Jesus or his teachings, but did not.
Weight: 4

Minimalist · 08-02-2007, 02:02 PM

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PROBABLY SHOULD have mentioned Jesus or his teachings, but did not.

Perhaps he simply considered it unimportant?

08-02-2007, 08:09 AM	#1
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	The Churh of Tarsus Was there one? What happened to xianity in Paul's alleged home town?

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08-02-2007, 08:43 AM	#2
wordy Contributor Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden, Europe Posts: 12,091	Maybe it is impossible to set one up where everyone know you?

08-02-2007, 09:57 AM	#4
Ray Moscow Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 1,255	There is a site -- foundations of a house -- in Tarsus that claims to be Paul's childhood home. (I have some photos packed away somewhere.) Of course all such attributions were made long, long after the fact. Tarsus was supposedly a hotbed of Mithraism in Paul's day, and some have supposed that Paul became acquainted with these sorts of "mysteries" there. Edit: I don't know anything about early Christianity in Tarsus, or even if there was any. Ray

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