truthie

Atheist sites focus too much on Abrahamic religions, esp; Christianity. I even spotted that sites such as evolvefish.com and rof.com (supposedly non-theist sites) sell Wiccan products such as fertility (Earth) goddess and are fonder of neopaganism/wicca. This surprises me because if there were religious products that would be promoted in these non-theist sites I thought it would be Buddhism or Daoism, which are inherently non-theistic.

Many non-theist sites seem to be screaming, “Believe in any deity except the Christian god.� “And if you don’t believe in the Christian god, then you are in our side and a freethinker� despite the fact that the person may worship and venerate kali, Zeus, etc.
And well, supposedly a freethinker is a person who formulates analytical opinions of religious beliefs independent of authority or tradition.

That is one of the reasons that I think that non-theism seems to be applicable only with Christianity, the ones who generally become atheists are Christians and not other non-Christians since in most cases atheism (sites, books) does not debate gods, god, and religions in general but only Christianity.

As a personal experience, when I was a Wiccan and saw an atheist site for the first time, I still thought that it was quite rational for me to believe in the existence of the Greek gods (being older than the Christian god, therefore more original) especially because all the arguments where con-Christian god, none of the arguments made me analyze my polytheism. :banghead:

Or is it better to believe in the Greek gods than in the Christian god?

T.

King Rat

I know what you are referring to, but disagree. I talk about xtianity because that's what I was, I'm familiar with it. I don't believe in any god(s)(ess) or the supernatural, but I can't discuss that much with a Hindu, I don't know anything about Hinduism. I can hold my own with Zen, but not Confucianism, Ya with me yet?

TySixtus

Most of us here have converted from some form of Christianity, that's why you see so much of it. I'd venture that other religions are less harmful to the human psyche, ergo when people leave, they aren't as bitter. I know some people will get pissy at my last statement, but that's how I look at it. I don't know how many converts we have from Islam, or Judaism (Magus and Heathen Dawn spring to mind) but, most of here were Christians. On top of that, a lot of Americans post here. Again, we get bombarded with Christian propoganda on a regular basis, so it tends to show up here in an unfavorable light. Thems the brakes, I'm afraid.

Ty

reprise

I'd love to see more discussion on here about the non-Abrahamic religions, but the reality is that most of our posters come from nations in which Christianity is dominant and so they have personal experience of either the religion itself or interaction with those who follow it. Heck, we don't even get many "pure" discussions about Islam. The few threads which are started about Islam tend to focus on why Islam is "flawed" from a Christian perspective. We just don't get long and complex threads debating whether Allah is "righteous" or whether Allah could make a rock so heavy that he couldn't lift it, let alone in depth discussions of the "morality" or otherwise of the Hindu gods, because we don't have enough posters of those faiths for such discussions to arise in the first place, let alone maintain their momentum - something I think is a great pity.

TySixtus

I just thought of something else, too.

Most of the arguments (the philosophical ones) used to disprove Christianity work on all the other religions. Basically, they all boil down to a total lack of proof of any god's existance. YWHW, Allah, God, HoGoSus, Zeus, Odin, Thor, Vishnu... there is no proof --or evidence-- that any of them exist. If it works for one, it'll work for the other.

Ty

Pyrrho

Why have so many of you not noticed the forum Non-Abrahamic Religion & Philosophy? If you want to talk about other kinds of religions, take a look at the above forum and you will find a variety of different religions being discussed.

Ojuice5001

Truthie,

I have a question of my own about your deconversion from Wicca, but first, I'll take a stab at yours.

You are right that if you looked at atheist sites without knowing any better, you'd think that atheists were anti-Christianity first and anti-religious second. Not only that, you might get the idea that they are either radically less hostile, or neutral, or ambivalent, toward paganism. (No doubt these are all true sometimes; my point is that they're true much less often than they appear.) Now, this impression is superficial--but even superficial phenomena demand an explanation. And I think that while the things atheists would say if you asked them are true, there are likely to be other factors. Here are a few possibilities:

1. Christianity (and its god) really does have a different relationship to the rest of the world, and atheists in particular, than other religions. I mean, not in the conservative-Christian Matthew 12:30 sense. But there are sensible ways to formulate it that don't require that Yahweh is the one true god. I'd elaborate, but this isn't the place. Let's just note that "deep" explanations of this kind are often true, but usually in conjunction with simpler explanations. (By the way, atheists often don't understand this. If I had to name a fallacy they were prone to, it would be the Fallacy of Inability to Understand that Some Things Have Multiple Causes.) Let's look at the simpler explanations.

2. As you note, another possibility is that the Greek gods really are a better belief. Since they are one of my beliefs, I'd like to think this is the case. But is it? Atheists have better arguments against Christianity, but the more realistic explanation is probably that they haven't been trying as hard to come up with anti-Hellenic arguments.

3. So a third possibility is that Christianity is more important to them. Just the fact that Christianity has the most adherents, especially in the West, is probably enough to make it more important. And Christianity has any number of properties that make some atheists dislike it more than paganism.

But certainly the atheists also have a tradition of disliking all religions equally. Or at least claiming that they do.

Now, for my question to you:

Correct me if anything I say is wrong, but one reason you believed in Wicca was the historical claims that some Wiccans make. And your other reasons didn't stand up to examination any better. It also sounds like you didn't appreciate the fact that atheists have arguments against polytheism too. And the reaction you got while posting as a Wiccan speaks for itself. (Don't take any of this as an offense. It's just my attempt to understand the story of your deconversion.)

So this raises the question: If any of these facts were otherwise, would you still have deconverted? Every pagan on this board would claim to have better reasons for their beliefs than the incredibly long heritage of Wicca. So, what if those reasons for believing had been yours? What if you had come to this board expecting, as everyone should, to have your beliefs met with much skepticism? Or what if the reaction had been less bombastically negative? Said negativity was due to both the approach you took, and to the fact that your version of Wicca didn't seem very well-thought-out. (But the standard you would have had to meet is quite high; I'm not inadequate in either area, and I've still rubbed people the wrong way on quite a few occasions.) If any of these variables had been different, do you think the result would have been any different?

I hope this question isn't too personal. But it's interesting both on a personal level, and as an illustration of what happens when intelligent religions (like Wicca or Catholicism) make silly claims.

Infidelettante

I have struggled with just this question. There is a sense in which I consider myself an Atheist because I don’t believe in the personal, creator God of the Theists. I have chosen to explain my atheism by saying that because I have no need of deities none exist. Should I discover I need them I don’t doubt they will appear. To confuse the subject even more I do use symbolic god-forms in my occult practice so I could truthfully say I do need deities.

I would remind everyone that we have a forum dedicated to the discussion of non-Abrahamic religions and philosophy which is found in the II Philosophical forums and is called, oddly enough, Non-Abrahamic Religions and Philosophy. Drop by and visit a while.

JT

Cubeless Academian

There's a widespread perception, among both atheists and theists, that nobody actually believes in Zeus and the other Greek gods. No one even considers believing in them; they're just automatically dismissed as absurd. Zeus's role in atheist rhetoric is similar to that of Santa Claus: If you can show that believing in God is equivalent to believing in Zeus, you've won, because everyone agrees that believing in Zeus is silly.

For that reason, no one thinks to write an essay called "Evidence that the Twelve Olympians Are Just a Myth." It's not something people write essays about; it's a foregone conclusion.

Because of this attitude toward the Greek gods and the gods of other dead religions, some atheists choose to use pagan imagery and vocabulary as a way of thumbing their nose at mainstream religions. If you wear a "What Would Zeus Do?" T-shirt or have a Venus of Willendorf keychain or say "Thank Apollo!" instead of "Thank God!", there's no danger of anyone thinking you actually believe in those Gods. It's just a way of saying "Ha ha, religion is stupid!"

Cubeless Academian

How very convenient! What if you should discover that you need a pet unicorn?