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Old 05-29-2013, 06:35 PM   #1
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Default Discussion of rules and other personal comments split from Osborn..Clement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson View Post

Here's the text:

Quote:
Fragment 12, line 1

Vatic. graec. 354 (= Evangeliencodex S, bei von Soden ε 89)

nach Mercati, Studi e Testi 12 (1904) S. 3.


Κλήμεντος ἐκ τῆς ϛʹ τῶν Ὑποτυπώσεων· Καὶ τὸν λεπρὸν ἐθεράπευσεν καὶ εἶπεν· «δεῖξον σεαυτὸν τοῖς ἱερεῦσιν εἰς μαρτύριον» διὰ
12.5
τοιαύτην παράδοσιν. ἔθος εἶχον οἱ ἱερεῖς δυνάμει θεοῦ λεπροὺς ἰᾶσθαι ἡμέραις τακταῖς. τοῦτον οὖν τὸν λεπρὸν πολλῷ χρόνῳ μὴ δυνηθέντες ἰάσασθαι ἔλεγον·
«τοῦτον οὐδεὶς ἰάσεται ἢ μόνος ὁ Χριστός, ἐὰν ἔλθῃ.» πολλὰ τοίνυν δεηθέντος τοῦ λεπροῦ ὁ σωτὴρ ἐπισπλαγ-
χνισθείς, ἰασάμενος αὐτόν, διὰ τοῦτο εἶπεν· «ἄπελθε καὶ δεῖξον σεαυ-
12.10
τὸν τοῖς ἱερεῦσιν εἰς μαρτύριον, ὅτι, εἰ τεθεράπευται οὗτος, ἐφ' οὗ εἰρήκατε <οὐδεὶς ἀλλ' ἢ ὁ Χριστὸς μόνος αὐτὸν ἰάσεται>, ἦλθεν ὁ Χριστός, καὶ πιστεύσατε αὐτῷ.»
Jeffrey
Quote:
ii. Do not cite ancient languages without providing a translation: this is not a language forum.
Your English translation please.
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:37 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson View Post

Epiphanius Scr. Eccl., Panarion (= Adversus haereses) (2021: 002)
Epiphanius, Bände 1–3: Ancoratus und Panarion”, Ed. Holl, K.
Leipzig: Hinrichs, 1:1915; 2:1922; 3:1933; Die griechischen christlichen Schriftsteller 25, 31, 37.
Volume 2, page 108, line 7

Ἀπελθὼν δεῖξον σεαυτὸν τῷ ἱερεῖ καὶ προσένεγκε περὶ τοῦ
καθαρισμοῦ σου, καθὼς προσέταξε Μωυσῆς»· «ἵνα ᾖ μαρτύριον τοῦτο
ὑμῖν
» ἀνθ' οὗ εἶπεν ὁ σωτήρ «εἰς μαρτύριον αὐτοῖς».

Epiphanius Scr. Eccl., Panarion (= Adversus haereses)
Volume 2, page 125, line 4

Ἀπελθὼν δεῖξον σεαυτὸν τῷ ἱερεῖ καὶ προσένεγκε περὶ τοῦ
καθαρισμοῦ σου, καθὼς προσέταξε Μωυσῆς»· «ἵνα ᾖ μαρτύριον
τοῦτο ὑμῖν
» ἀνθ' οὗ εἶπεν ὁ σωτήρ «εἰς μαρτύριον αὐτοῖς».
Quote:
ii. Do not cite ancient languages without providing a translation: this is not a language forum.
Your English translation please.
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:58 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson View Post

Here's the text:

Fragment 12, line 1

Vatic. graec. 354 (= Evangeliencodex S, bei von Soden ε 89)

nach Mercati, Studi e Testi 12 (1904) S. 3.


Κλήμεντος ἐκ τῆς ϛʹ τῶν Ὑποτυπώσεων· Καὶ τὸν λεπρὸν ἐθεράπευσεν καὶ εἶπεν· «δεῖξον σεαυτὸν τοῖς ἱερεῦσιν εἰς μαρτύριον» διὰ
12.5
τοιαύτην παράδοσιν. ἔθος εἶχον οἱ ἱερεῖς δυνάμει θεοῦ λεπροὺς ἰᾶσθαι ἡμέραις τακταῖς. τοῦτον οὖν τὸν λεπρὸν πολλῷ χρόνῳ μὴ δυνηθέντες ἰάσασθαι ἔλεγον·
«τοῦτον οὐδεὶς ἰάσεται ἢ μόνος ὁ Χριστός, ἐὰν ἔλθῃ.» πολλὰ τοίνυν δεηθέντος τοῦ λεπροῦ ὁ σωτὴρ ἐπισπλαγ-
χνισθείς, ἰασάμενος αὐτόν, διὰ τοῦτο εἶπεν· «ἄπελθε καὶ δεῖξον σεαυ-
12.10
τὸν τοῖς ἱερεῦσιν εἰς μαρτύριον, ὅτι, εἰ τεθεράπευται οὗτος, ἐφ' οὗ εἰρήκατε <οὐδεὶς ἀλλ' ἢ ὁ Χριστὸς μόνος αὐτὸν ἰάσεται>, ἦλθεν ὁ Χριστός, καὶ πιστεύσατε αὐτῷ.»

Jeffrey
ii. Do not cite ancient languages without providing a translation: this is not a language forum.

I have no idea why you are quoting this rule to me.

The issue at hand was not what a Greek text said, but where it could be found and what its full reading in Greek was.


Quote:
Your English translation please.
Why is this needed? The meaning of the text is not at issue, is it? And, as I understand things, it certainly shouldn't be to you since you do read Greek, don't you?

Jeffrey
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson
Why is this needed? The meaning of the text is not at issue, is it?
BC&H new forum rules require ;
Quote:
ii. Do not cite ancient languages without providing a translation: this is not a language forum.
You are no exception. If 'the meaning of the text is not at issue', then you have no reason to need to cite it in full.

Whether I can read the Greek is not at issue. The rule was instituted because most participants in this Forum are not literate in ancient foreign languages.

You may either translate (which should pose you no problem given your expertise in Greek) or be content to provide only the reference, which if correct, would be every bit as informative as posting gobs of Greek texts without any translation.
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson
Why is this needed? The meaning of the text is not at issue, is it?
BC&H new forum rules require ;
Quote:
ii. Do not cite ancient languages without providing a translation: this is not a language forum.
You are no exception. If 'the meaning of the text is not at issue', then you have no reason to need to cite it in full.

Whether I can read the Greek is not at issue. The rule was instituted because most participants in this Forum are not literate in ancient foreign languages.

You may either translate (which should pose you no problem given your expertise in Greek) or be content to provide only the reference, which if correct, would be every bit as informative as posting gobs of Greek texts without any translation.
How nice of you to tell me what I may or may not do, let alone that providing a reference to a text, when someone ask me to provide a text, would be as every bit informative to that person as actually providing what he/she asked for would be!

In any case, let's get a ruling from the mods.

If someone asks me (or anyone who has access to the TLG and other Greek resources) to provide the Greek text of a passage and nothing more, and the issue at hand is not what the Greek means or how it functions as a proof text, must I (or anyone) post a translation of that text as well?

And FWIW, I note that Andrew Criddle posted Greek texts without translations. But S did not get on his case, or accuse him of violating list rules, or scold him in this high horsed manner that he's taken with me, for doing so. Perhaps he's not really interested in seeing the rules enforced, at least uniformly, but has other, let noble reasons for coming down on me.
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

In any case, let's get a ruling from the mods.
The RULE is;
Quote:
ii. Do not cite ancient languages without providing a translation: this is not a language forum.
This will be interesting in view of the reply I received when I politely requested such clarification ;

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar
Would you please provide further clarification on these matters?

Respectfully yours, Sheshbazzar
No, we will not provide clarification.

The rules are clear. If you cannot (or will not) follow them, do not post in BC&H.
Do you think you are the exception to this rule?
Quote:
If someone asks me (or anyone who has access to the TLG and other Greek resources) to provide the Greek text of a passage and nothing more, and the issue at hand is not what the Greek means or how it functions as a proof text, must I (or anyone) post a translation of that text as well?
If some one asks me to provide the Hebrew text of a passage and nothing more, Do you think I could get away with posting a long excerpt of Hebrew text with no translation provided?

This rule was instituted for a reason. What do you think that reason was? To stop people from posting foreign languages without providing English language translations?
...or was it just a move to stifle any such foreign text that applied only to certain select members?


Quote:
And FWIW, I note that Andrew Criddle posted Greek texts without translations. But S did not get on his case, or accuse him of violating list rules, or scold him in this high horsed manner that he's taken with me, for doing so. Perhaps he's not really interested in seeing the rules enforced, at least uniformly, but has other, let noble reasons for coming down on me.
So I missed a post here and there. The rule is the rule and is still the same rule no matter who the hell you think you are.
You agreed to abide by this rule as a condition of posting here.

I vehemently objected to the wording and nature of this rule when it was first posted....and got stomped on by the mods for my trouble.
So if the damn stupid rule cannot be clarified or worded better, let it be equally enforced upon every member and upon every post.



.
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

In any case, let's get a ruling from the mods.
This will be interesting in view of the reply I received when I requested such ;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar
Would you please provide further clarification on these matters?

Respectfully yours, Sheshbazzar
Would you provide us, please, with an exact copy of your request?

Jeffrey
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:39 PM   #8
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You still think the Marcion tangent was the worst possible digression?
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:42 PM   #9
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You still think the Marcion tangent was the worst possible digression?
Forgive me, but I don't recall ever characterizing it as such. Could you provide a quote of my actually saying so?

Jeffrey
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:48 PM   #10
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Can we stop with this? Jeffrey was fulfilling my request. I don't understand the desire to get Jeffrey in trouble. We need more authorities like Jeffrey not less. We need less of the idiot types not more. Why the effort to run out of town someone who could actually teach you something? Oh I forgot. Shesh is smart enough the way he is.

Stop treating this forum as a social hangout. It's trying to be something more than that (at least it was a few weeks ago)
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