Chris Weimer

Let me quote myself:

If you do an author search (i.e. "petronius au: rowell" sans quotes) it should be article 1 and 6.

Quintilian v. Seneca - a battle of words.

RAFH

Excuse me, but for the benefit of the lurkers, could you just post the relevant text supporting your claim relevance of this tale to the issue of Historical/Mythical Junior and explain how its relevant?

Chris Weimer

Life does not stop and start at your convenience.

spin

If you look at the part in red in the passage I cited you should be able to see parallels with the Jesus crucifixion. Here are the ones I note at the moment:

1. Jesus was amongst thieves when crucified
2. the governor of the province (for Jesus, Pontius Pilate) sentenced them to death
3. there was a vault nearby
4. there was a soldier on guard of those crucified
5. one of the bodies went missing

spin

gstafleu

So what we have here is a crucifixion scene that looks a bit like the one in the gospels--although not anywhere near Jerusalem--that was written roughly around the time of Jesus, so now we are all getting excited. Is that about it?

Gerard Stafleu

andrewcriddle

FWIW Bowersock in Fiction as History (or via: amazon.co.uk) argues that Petronius was influenced in the Satyricon by knowledge of the Jesus story.

(IMVHO this is unlikely but Bowersock makes an interesting case)

Andrew Criddle

RAFH

Nobody suggested it did. But it would be nice if somebody put something out for review and discussion. No need to get snotty about it.

RAFH

Hooboy, you have nearly an exact match there.

*Not uncommon for thieves to be crucified, it was the nomal means of execution for such.
*Any death penalty required a high official such as a provincial governor to impose it.
*Vaults are not uncommon near cemeteries. Cemeteries were often used as sites of execution.
*Pretty typical to have a guard about at a crucifixion site, as noted in the text, to prevent relatives and friends from taking the bodies, the purpose of crucifixion was to instill fear in potential criminals so the body was to be left for a long time to instill as much fear as possible. Relatives and friends would want a proper burial which was typically prohibited for crucifixions as a way of striking beyond death.
*oh my!

Toto

Was it common for mere thieves to be crucified? I thought that crucifixion was more likely for rebels and insurrectionists (although some of them might have been referred to as "bandits.")

Ben C Smith

The Latin at this point is latro, which can certainly mean a bandit or an insurrectionist. (The Vulgate uses it to translate the Greek ληστης, which is the word used of the two thieves next to Jesus.)

Ben.