Freethought & Rationalism Archive

andrewcriddle · 03-04-2008, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died.” 1 Thessalonians 4:14.

Why did Paul not write that the knew that Jesus died and rose again?

Why is the alleged fact of the resurrection of Jesus a belief rather than an accepted fact among early Christians?

It is worth noting that Paul says "we believe" not "I believe". Paul might have said that he himself knew of the resurrection from direct personal experience. However, the Thessalonians were not in the same position, having believed in the resurrection on the basis of Paul's preaching.

Andrew Criddle

karlmarx · 03-04-2008, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

It is worth noting that Paul says "we believe" not "I believe". Paul might have said that he himself knew of the resurrection from direct personal experience. However, the Thessalonians were not in the same position, having believed in the resurrection on the basis of Paul's preaching.

Andrew Criddle

True, but the 1st person plural is consistent with what he says in Galatians 1:11-12:

Quote:

For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

In other words, not even Paul himself knew of any of this from personal experience (unless you count revelation as personal experience).

However, if Paul thought the resurrection was, in fact, historical, then he wouldn't say "believe", but "know" - even if he had no personal experience of the event. What author would write that he "believed" Alexander conquered Asia, or that he "believed" Caesar defeated Pompey?

spamandham · 03-04-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlmarx

What author would write that he "believed" Alexander conquered Asia, or that he "believed" Caesar defeated Pompey?

...I might, but then, I'm somewhat of an uberskeptic in these regards.

I doubt Paul was as critical.

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