Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ben C Smith · 01-22-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

From reading the article linked above, the evidence is not at all clear that this was just a general insult. Mitchell seems to reject that: The NT commentators do not seem to want to deal with the Gnostic references to the Pleroma, perhaps because they assume that those references were written after Paul wrote.

But is this more evidence that this passage was written later than around 50 CE?

How so?

Ben.

Gamera · 01-22-2007, 01:05 PM

The description appears to be an example of a trope that Paul insists upon. Namely, that the gospel message itself saves and the messenger is irrelevant.

As the context of the passage shows, he is comparing himself with the other apostles and pointing out that he preached the same message regarding Jesus' resurrection. So whether they got the message from the "real" apostles or from him (an odd fish as apostles go), it's the same message so the Corinthians should accept it.

Phillipians 1 makes a similar, even more radical claim, stating that even the bad motives of the preacher are irrelevant if the gospel narrative is preached:

"16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel; 17 the former proclaim Christ out of partisanship, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in that I rejoice. 19" T

his is all part of the radical Pauline semiotics, which asserts that the gospel narrative itself (not Jesus who is in a sense now absent) is salvational.

Here's the Corinthian context.

1 Corinthians 15

1 Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, 2 by which you are saved, if you hold it fast--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, unfit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God which is with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

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01-22-2007, 01:05 PM	#22
Gamera Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 10,955	The description appears to be an example of a trope that Paul insists upon. Namely, that the gospel message itself saves and the messenger is irrelevant. As the context of the passage shows, he is comparing himself with the other apostles and pointing out that he preached the same message regarding Jesus' resurrection. So whether they got the message from the "real" apostles or from him (an odd fish as apostles go), it's the same message so the Corinthians should accept it. Phillipians 1 makes a similar, even more radical claim, stating that even the bad motives of the preacher are irrelevant if the gospel narrative is preached: "16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel; 17 the former proclaim Christ out of partisanship, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in that I rejoice. 19" T his is all part of the radical Pauline semiotics, which asserts that the gospel narrative itself (not Jesus who is in a sense now absent) is salvational. Here's the Corinthian context. 1 Corinthians 15 1 Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, 2 by which you are saved, if you hold it fast--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, unfit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God which is with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

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