Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MrMacSon · 03-07-2013, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

It is a appeal to responsible research. So far this thread has completely avoided such, following a conspiracy minded attempt through ignorance to unseat 99.9999 % of all professors knowledge on the subject.

What is "99.99 % of all professors' knowledge on the subject"?

What is the basis of their knowledge?

outhouse · 03-07-2013, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

1. traditional "dating for Paul" is mostly based on a tradition of bare-assertion. Please explain why that should be trusted.

It is appropriate to provide actual arguments, especially in a forum such as this.

I had supplied this earlier and it was ignored for special pleading

http://hebrew.wisc.edu/~rltroxel/Paul/dating.htm

The second step is an absolute dating. That is, among the many events in Paul's life, which can be aligned with events in the broader stream of Roman history to which we can attribute specific dates? For today, we'll deal with the issue of absolute dating.

outhouse · 03-07-2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

It is a appeal to responsible research. So far this thread has completely avoided such, following a conspiracy minded attempt through ignorance to unseat 99.9999 % of all professors knowledge on the subject.

What is "99.99 % of all professors' knowledge on the subject"?

What is the basis of their knowledge?

Its not internet blogs by those with little education spreading misinformation.

Nor the use of conspiracy forums where people play with personal hobby horses.

Are you telling me you have no idea how scholars gain education and then use that knowledge to determine historicity on a given subject?

MrMacSon · 03-07-2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

1. traditional "dating for Paul" is mostly based on a tradition of bare-assertion. Please explain why that should be trusted.

It is appropriate to provide actual arguments, especially in a forum such as this.

I had supplied this earlier and it was ignored for special pleading

http://hebrew.wisc.edu/~rltroxel/Paul/dating.htm

The second step is an absolute dating. That is, among the many events in Paul's life, which can be aligned with events in the broader stream of Roman history to which we can attribute specific dates? For today, we'll deal with the issue of absolute dating.

That is one persons narrow view about one aspect of the Pauline writings - it is not a consensus.

Yes, I know how scholarship, and consensus of scholarship works,

I also know the principles of Historic Method.

MrMacSon · 03-07-2013, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

What is "99.99 % of all professors' knowledge on the subject"?

What is the basis of their knowledge?

Its not internet blogs by those with little education spreading misinformation.

Nor the use of conspiracy forums where people play with personal hobby horses.

Are you telling me you have no idea how scholars gain education and then use that knowledge to determine historicity on a given subject?

The answers

"It's not internet blogs" ... and
"Nor the use of conspiracy forums where people play with personal hobby horses."

are non-answers to my question, and a moral obligation to provide, as asked, positive answers.

Moreover, please address this

Quote:

some of the so-called "undisputed [Pauline] epistles" are disputed -

Quote:

The name "undisputed" epistles represents the traditional scholarly consensus asserting that Paul authored each letter. However, even the least disputed of letters, such as Galatians, have found critics.[11^*] Moreover, the unity of the letters is questioned by some scholars. First and Second Corinthians have garnered particular suspicion, with some scholars, among them Edgar Goodspeed and Norman Perrin, supposing one or both texts as we have them today are actually amalgamations of multiple individual letters. There remains considerable discussion as to the presence of possible significant interpolations. However, such textual corruption is difficult to detect and even more so to verify, leaving little agreement as to the extent of the epistles' integrity. See also Radical Criticism, which maintains that the external evidence for attributing any of the letters to Paul is so weak, that it should be considered that all the letters appearing in the Marcion canon were written in Paul's name by members of the Marcionite Church and were afterwards edited and adopted by the Catholic Church.

* for example, F. R. McGuire, even though otherwise critical scholars like A. Q. Morton saw this text as the benchmark for refuting Pauline authorship of most other epistles; see A. Q. Morton & J. McLeman: Paul, the Man and the Myth (1966).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors...puted_epistles

outhouse · 03-07-2013, 02:27 PM

try learning a little about Paul from Yale.

http://www.virtualprofessors.com/int...lst-152-martin

outhouse · 03-07-2013, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

.Moreover, please address this

some of the so-called "undisputed [Pauline] epistles" are disputed -

having exact details of how his undesputed Epistles end up in their finished form, does not detract from their composition date, nor Pauls historicity.

Paul has historicity.

Would you like to talk about multiple attestation? or absolute dating?

outhouse · 03-07-2013, 02:31 PM

Does anyone have anything better then a few early writers that didnt include a martyr ?

MrMacSon · 03-07-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

try learning a little about Paul from Yale.

http://www.virtualprofessors.com/int...lst-152-martin

Yet, by saying this ...

Quote:

This course studies the origins of Christianity by using the New Testament and other literature for historical context.

The course does not use the New Testament as for theological purposes, but rather as a source for historical study.

... is simply circular 'reasoning', and invokes the beg-the-question fallacy

MrMacSon · 03-07-2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Paul has historicity.

Would you like to talk about multiple attestation? or absolute dating?

How does Paul have 'historicity'? What multiple attestation?

,

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03-07-2013, 02:27 PM	#16
outhouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auburn ca Posts: 4,269	try learning a little about Paul from Yale. http://www.virtualprofessors.com/int...lst-152-martin

03-07-2013, 02:31 PM	#18
outhouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auburn ca Posts: 4,269	Does anyone have anything better then a few early writers that didnt include a martyr ?

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