Biff the unclean

And we are simply stating that no one knows if he did or not. Some speculate that he was historic, but that is mere speculation. No one knows, there is no information to be had.
We can discuss this all you like but you are the only one with a handicap here. Not only can’t you back up extraordinary claims about Jesus being a magic Jew but you can’t back up ordinary claims.
Do “experts” claim there was an historic Jesus? Some do, some don’t. Speculation…nothing but speculation.

You are having a discussion with Atheists. HJ doesn’t effect us one way or the other. So why complain to us that your contentions are hard for you to support?

gracebkr

unclean biff, Most do, little don't. I have a sneaking suspicion what religion the ones who don't are.

Biff the unclean

If by “don’t” you mean ‘don’t have any evidence of a HJ’ then that would be everyone of every belief system.

RPS

You really need to keep up. I haven't mentioned Tacitus or Pliny. Moreover, the experts -- even the non-Christian experts like Vermes, Ehrmann and Fredriksen -- find the evidence quite satisfactory, thank you. Apparently, only the fundamatheist contingent thinks the overall evidence has been "found wanting" (in a typically arrogant turn of phrase).

Right.

Then I suggest you educate yourself. You might start by looking at the following, written by non-Christians:

• Jesus the Jew: A Historian's Reading of the Gospels, by Vermes;
• Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium, by Ehrman; and
  
• From Jesus to Christ, by Fredriksen.

Johann Sin

Is there a page somewhere to inform theists what are the most common things not to do here? Nevermind...

1. Do NOT ask how life begun when talking about evolution.

The study of how life begin is NOT evolution. That field of study is abiogenesis. You want to talk evolution, talk evolution.


2. Do NOT ask for any info BEFORE you have done you due diligence to at least do some reading first. And please don't try to argue that you have. Refer to below.


3. Do NOT ever say that we come from monkey.
That proves that;

a. you know absolutely nothing about evolution.
b. you have never heard the term 'Common Ancestor'.
c. have not done even the slightest read up whatsoever on this subject.
d. all of the above.

We do NOT come from monkeys. Human and monkeys (you and your brother/sister) have a common ancestor (your parent). Saying human come from monkeys is like saying you come from your brother/sister.

Oh, and every fossil is arguably a transitional fossil.

Johann Sin

You seem to have confused 'evidence' with 'books about evidence'.

Johann Sin

Double post.

Biff the unclean

Of the 3 I’ve only read Fredriksen, and saw some of her PBS show. IIRC she doesn’t establish a historic Jesus, she just assumes one. Then she And she seems to do a fine job of constructing a believable and historically cogent character. And it’s easy to miss that this is a character she only assumes existed.
bold mine

RPS

Nonsense. I am merely suggesting you take your own advice, to wit:If you want to claim that the experts don't know what they're talking about, you need to do more than spout a bare conclusion that the evidence has been found wanting (at least if you wish to be taken seriously).

Johann Sin

Since when did I claim that???

The only names I've mentioned so far are;

Josephus (interpolation)
Tacitus (talking about Christians, not Jesus)
Pliny the Younger (wrong time, not eye-witness)

If you wish, I can also include;

Talmud (confusing and inconclusive)
Thallus (unreliable and probably wrong time as well)

If there are any other 'extra-biblical' evidence (not books about the evidence), kindly please provide.