Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chaucer · 02-10-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Chaucer: stop belaboring the obvious.

If aa5874 thinks that all the gThomas material is forgery or otherwise inauthentic, then it is not a sayings document to him, whatever it claims to be.

By that yardstick, it makes sense to say that the play Henry V is not about Henry V or a Bach fugue is not a fugue! When it comes to Thomas, the word "sayings" is even in the title! It denies reality to say it's not a document of sayings. Is aa living in some kind of subjective reality?!

Sincerely,

Chaucer

Toto · 02-10-2010, 12:40 PM

If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does he have? Answer: 4. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.

Calling your document the Sayings of Jesus doesn't make it the actual sayings of Jesus.

Chaucer · 02-10-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does he have? Answer: 4. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.

Calling your document the Sayings of Jesus doesn't make it the actual sayings of Jesus.

The novel Tristram Shandy is still called Tristram Shandy regardless of the nature of the leading character. Tristram Shandy is still an account relating to Tristram Shandy. It's not a cooking recipe. It remains a novel.

Similarly, the GThomas is still entitled the "secret sayings that Didymos Judas Thomas recorded". That's what it's called. Since it's called the sayings that Thomas recorded, it's only legitimate to discuss its authenticity after the physical reality of a _found_ ms. is acknowledged. Else one isn't dealing with reality. In any case, the OP here isn't about its authenticity; it's about its non-existence -- a claim that remains flat-out wrong. There's no sense in talking about its level of authenticity in this thread if the OP-er of the thread insists that it's not even been found! That's surreal.

Chaucer

Toto · 02-10-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaucer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does he have? Answer: 4. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.

Calling your document the Sayings of Jesus doesn't make it the actual sayings of Jesus.

The novel Tristram Shandy is still called Tristram Shandy regardless of the nature of the leading character. Tristram Shandy is still an account relating to Tristram Shandy. It's not a cooking recipe. It remains a novel.

Similarly, the GThomas is still entitled the "secret sayings that Didymos Judas Thomas recorded". That's what it's called. Since it's called the sayings that Thomas recorded, it's only legitimate to discuss its authenticity after the physical reality of a _found_ ms. is acknowledged. Else one isn't dealing with reality. In any case, the OP here isn't about its authenticity; it's about its non-existence -- a claim that remains flat-out wrong. There's no sense in talking about its level of authenticity in this thread if the OP-er of the thread insists that it's not even been found! That's surreal.

Chaucer

aa5874 said in the post that became the OP:

Quote:

There are no "sayings" of Jesus document that have been actually found . The "sayings" of Jesus are all hypothetical.

I suspect that aa5874 is not a native speaker of English, because he often constructs sentences that do not scan. In fact, the first sentence there does not make a lot of sense. You persist in reading it as a claim that a document has not been found. I think the context is that the "sayings" have not been established - they are all hypothetical.

But there is truly no point in continuing this if your only need is to try to force aa5874 to admit error. That could go on for months, nay, years, wasting billions and billions of pixels. aa5874 has outlasted better posters than you.

Chaucer · 02-10-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaucer

The novel Tristram Shandy is still called Tristram Shandy regardless of the nature of the leading character. Tristram Shandy is still an account relating to Tristram Shandy. It's not a cooking recipe. It remains a novel.

Similarly, the GThomas is still entitled the "secret sayings that Didymos Judas Thomas recorded". That's what it's called. Since it's called the sayings that Thomas recorded, it's only legitimate to discuss its authenticity after the physical reality of a _found_ ms. is acknowledged. Else one isn't dealing with reality. In any case, the OP here isn't about its authenticity; it's about its non-existence -- a claim that remains flat-out wrong. There's no sense in talking about its level of authenticity in this thread if the OP-er of the thread insists that it's not even been found! That's surreal.

Chaucer

aa5874 said in the post that became the OP:

Quote:

There are no "sayings" of Jesus document that have been actually found . The "sayings" of Jesus are all hypothetical.

I suspect that aa5874 is not a native speaker of English, because he often constructs sentences that do not scan. In fact, the first sentence there does not make a lot of sense.

Maybe <shrug>.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

You persist in reading it as a claim that a document has not been found. I think the context is that the "sayings" have not been established - they are all hypothetical.

But there is truly no point in continuing this if your only need is to try to force aa5874 to admit error. That could go on for months, nay, years, wasting billions and billions of pixels. aa5874 has outlasted better posters than you.

Ah, undoubtedly, but have there been any more dogged? :-)

Cheers,

Chaucer

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02-10-2010, 12:40 PM	#32
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does he have? Answer: 4. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. Calling your document the Sayings of Jesus doesn't make it the actual sayings of Jesus.

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