Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 11-24-2003, 02:28 PM

Further study urged (by Shanks)

The SBL and the American Academy of Religion are meeting now in Atlanta. Herschel Shanks is chairing a panel on the Ossuary, which Israel�s Antiquities Authority declined to attend.

Quote:

The antiquities authority, which has yet to release a full report on its findings, said the ossuary itself is ancient but oxygen isotope analysis suggested the words on it were inscribed in modern times.

The hard, brown patina that covers the box could not be found on the inscription, where a soft, greyish chalk-and-water paste had been applied instead to imitate weathering, the authority said.

James Harrell, a geologist at the University of Toledo and member of the Association for the Study of Marble and Other Stones in Antiquity, said his analysis of the inscription suggests the missing patina could simply be the result of over-cleaning�not forgery.

. . . .

Panelists said while oxygen isotope analysis found most of the inscription showed some sort of modern influence, the last part of it was consistent with the ancient patina�specifically the part that names Jesus.

Some of the scientists called on the Antiquities Authority to compare the box with more samples of that era and possibly conduct radiocarbon dating on the inscription.

Scholars continue to debate

Quote:

I dont know for sure whether this inscription is a forgery or not, and but I want to find out, said Shanks, editor of the Biblical Archeology Review, which published Lemaire's initial findings. Those who have attacked it have not proven their case as far as I'm concerned.

Among the presenters will be Lemaire himself, who was shown the ossuary last year by Oded Golan, an Israeli antiquities collector, who has also been accused by skeptics of forging the inscription.

Golan, who also will speak Sunday, has said he bought it years ago and had no details about its background.

more

Quote:

Panelists also pointed out that while oxygen isotope analysis found most of the inscription showed some sort of modern influence, the last part of it was consistent with the ancient patina _ specifically the part that names Jesus.

Many called on the IAA to continue their analysis of the ossuary by recruiting specialists for the investigative team, comparing the box with more samples of that era and possibly conducting radiocarbon dating on the inscription.

. . . .

Golan, who was detained by Israeli police earlier this year for questioning, remained critical of the IAA, accusing it of dismissing important findings from the antiquities market to discourage illegal trading. Instead, he said, it simply discourages dealers with significant artifacts from coming forward.

People are just afraid because they can only lose; there is nothing to gain, Golan said.

Vorkosigan · 11-24-2003, 02:31 PM

It's never going to stop.

Vorkosigan

Toto · 11-24-2003, 02:42 PM

This particular panel seems to be Shank's show - why is the SBL making such an interested party the head of a panel? There's no one with a financial interest in proving the Ossuary a fraud to orchestrate the case for the other side.

Doctor X · 11-24-2003, 02:43 PM

"Iiiiiiiiiiiii'mmmmm not dead!"

I am sure Golan will explain why he stores the most significant religious artifact ever discovered on his toilet.

--J.D.

P.S. There are rational people out there who believe an actual ark rests on Mt. Arat (?)--no, not "magnetic signatures that suggest it could be"--but an actually big wooden boat you could see . . . and a spy satelite could find.

I note that, because no matter HOW much evidence is presented against this stupid thing it will rise . . . yet again . . . like Nessie and Stalone's career.

Asha'man · 11-24-2003, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Some of the scientists called on the Antiquities Authority to compare the box with more samples of that era and possibly conduct radiocarbon dating on the inscription.

Is it just me, or is this a truely silly idea? How exactly to you date a hole in a rock by looking at the carbon that isn't there?

Do they mean radiocarbon date the patina? Isn't that also going to be useless, since sea creatures don't provide the same type of radiocarbon dates as land creatures, and the inscription was rubbed with chalk?

Is there any reason to believe that some form of charcoal residue would be present?

What am I missing here?

gregor · 11-25-2003, 05:45 AM

Let me get this right, the missing patina in the inscription could be the result of "over cleaning."

I don't know about you guys, but when I find a 1st century inscription on an ancient limestone bone box, the first thing I'd want to do is get the Comet out and scrub the day-lights out of the inscription.

I'd be so embarrased to be found with a dirty inscription.

Steven Carr · 11-25-2003, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gregor

I don't know about you guys, but when I find a 1st century inscription on an ancient limestone bone box, the first thing I'd want to do is get the Comet out and scrub the day-lights out of the inscription.

I'd be so embarrased to be found with a dirty inscription.

And then I'd get a knife and 'sharpen' the letters.

And then I'd pack it carefully, so that it was a fluke accident that it got a big crack right across the most suspicious letters of the inscription.

And then I'd insure it for a million dollars and store it on top of a toilet.

Postcard73 · 11-25-2003, 07:39 AM

Well, let's face it: when your entire system for understanding the world is founded on the lack of evidence that xianity is, you gotta grasp like crazy whenever a new straw comes along...

Sauron · 11-25-2003, 10:12 AM

Front page of CNN today:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science....ap/index.html

Quote:

Scholars say Jesus box may be genuine

Tuesday, November 25, 2003 Posted: 10:26 AM EST (1526 GMT)

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- A purported first-century inscription naming Jesus may or may not be the real thing, but Israel's labeling of the find as a fake is premature, scientists and scholars said at a panel discussion.
[...]
Panelists, speaking in Atlanta at the annual joint conference of the American Academy of Religion and the Society of Biblical Literature on Sunday, said authorities should examine the box more closely before passing judgment.

"I don't know for sure whether this is a forged inscription, and I'm sort of cast as a defender of the inscription. I'm not," said moderator Hershel Shanks, editor of the Biblical Archeology Review, which published the initial findings. "What I do know is, Israeli authorities have badly managed the affair."

Weltall · 11-25-2003, 12:14 PM

^ Oh yeah, Shanks makes such an unbiased moderator.

I wonder if the panel mentioned in the article has the same qualifications to render judgement as the IGS.

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11-24-2003, 02:31 PM	#2
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	It's never going to stop. Vorkosigan

11-24-2003, 02:42 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	This particular panel seems to be Shank's show - why is the SBL making such an interested party the head of a panel? There's no one with a financial interest in proving the Ossuary a fraud to orchestrate the case for the other side.

11-24-2003, 02:43 PM	#4
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	"Iiiiiiiiiiiii'mmmmm not dead!" I am sure Golan will explain why he stores the most significant religious artifact ever discovered on his toilet. --J.D. P.S. There are rational people out there who believe an actual ark rests on Mt. Arat (?)--no, not "magnetic signatures that suggest it could be"--but an actually big wooden boat you could see . . . and a spy satelite could find. I note that, because no matter HOW much evidence is presented against this stupid thing it will rise . . . yet again . . . like Nessie and Stalone's career.

11-25-2003, 05:45 AM	#6
gregor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 932	Let me get this right, the missing patina in the inscription could be the result of "over cleaning." I don't know about you guys, but when I find a 1st century inscription on an ancient limestone bone box, the first thing I'd want to do is get the Comet out and scrub the day-lights out of the inscription. I'd be so embarrased to be found with a dirty inscription.

11-25-2003, 07:39 AM	#8
Postcard73 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Roanoke, VA. Posts: 2,198	Well, let's face it: when your entire system for understanding the world is founded on the lack of evidence that xianity is, you gotta grasp like crazy whenever a new straw comes along...

11-25-2003, 12:14 PM	#10
Weltall Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 3,283	^ Oh yeah, Shanks makes such an unbiased moderator. I wonder if the panel mentioned in the article has the same qualifications to render judgement as the IGS.

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