Chris Weimer

But of course, spin. The gospels say that Jesus was from Galilee and traveled around Judaea. What are you expecting to be spoken there, Sanskrit? Are you saying that Judaean (with the exception of the noble Jews in Jerusalem) weren't speaking Aramaic natively?

judge

Well we know that it would not have been greek that was primary among jews in that area from what Josephus tells us.

from Josephus, wars of the jews XX, 11, 2

Chris Weimer

That would be Jerusalem, dear judge. If a certain Dead Sea theory is correct, I reckon most of the scrolls came from Jerusalem, having been written in Hebrew. Yet surprisingly enough, we find lots of Aramaic there, and even Greek. And furthermore, Galilee isn't technically part of Judaea either.

judge

By that area I meant the area from which the targums might have come.
So this could be either Judea or Galilee.

spin

Were any of the gospels written in Palestine? If they weren't you cannot build a case on gospel tradition. We merely have texts written in Greek and people cannot help but go beyond that fact without demonstrating on what grounds they can. There's no problem for Paul, being a diaspora Jew writing to mainly Greek speakers. But the gospels whose writing background is certainly not clear. In fact I have made a case for Mk being written in Rome, what use would such a text, if the case is correct, be for saying "the gospels were based around an area where Aramaic was primary", unless you were merely contextualising, which would give no weight to the subordinated clause or to the proposition that the gospels having Jesus apparently citing from late Aramaic targums is possible because "the gospels were based around an area where Aramaic was primary".


spin

judge

No we also have texts written in Aramaic . And nothing peer reviewed examining the claims regarding which came first.

Chris Weimer

You mistake me. The gospels themselves weren't written around an area where Aramaic was primary, but the storyline most certainly is. If I write a story and base it in London, aren't I supposed to use British diction? Wouldn't it appear rather odd if I wrote "color" instead of "colour"? Or if I wrote a story based in France, would it be so hard to conceive me writing one the authors as saying "Merci!" or "Mon dieu!" That is all I meant. As for Mark being written in Rome, obviously he has some familiarity with an already existing Jesus tradition, no doubt, which may have come from an area that did speak Aramaic primarily. This saying may reflect such an ultimate source. Why not?

spin

All your sad attempts to insinuate Aramaic have failed. The earliest texts we have are in Greek. The Syriac Aramaic texts appear to be derivative for the many reasons I have given in the past, from Greek loan words and Latin loan words specifically found in the Greek gospels to distinctions made in the Greek which are lost in the Syriac, distinctions which often reflect different sources, such as are discussed in all the synoptic analyses, while whose conclusions vary, the starting data are shared by all. Remember for example the Marcan "scribe" used by Lk from the Marcan source, but "lawyer" from a non-Marcan source?

And you've never dealt with the subject of why if the gospels were originally written in Aramaic that the Aramaic we have is Syriac and not Galilean.

The Peshitta texts are later derivations and don't deal with the problem at hand.


spin

(Jesus was walking down Macleay Street on Good Friday feeling bored looking at all the hustlers and he thought, "what a terrible way to spend easter, hanging around the Cross.")

judge

Well that may be.

It would be great if we could peer review our own work. These issues will one day be subject to a proper analysis. Until then we can't treat them as if they had been.





Sad..you could at least have said he was going up there to get nailed, like everyone else.

spin

You shouldn't wait around for someone to come and hold your hand, judge. It is the evidence which counts. Depending other people's ideas doesn't show an interaction with evidence or any desire to understand. C'mon judge, get your hands dirty and learn something on the subject.

Never thought of it.

Well, you know he then went into a hotel, threw a few nails down on the reception desk and said, "could you put me up for the night?"


spin