New Atheist

Hello. I haven't really read the entire thread, so I'm not sure exactly what verses you are talking about or what lines. I just briefly skimmed through the first pages, to see what the main problem was, don't know what's been said in the other pages. Just thought I'd drop in to say my thoughts.

I'm Greek so I know the language, so if anyone wants to give me whole sentences to translate or anything feel free.

On the aeonas thing, which is what I saw in the first page.

aeonas actually means century. It is a 100 year period. Not 1000 as I saw some others put it. 1000 years is a xilietia.

That being said, it doesn't mean that whenever the word is used it means a specific period of times. In many phrases the word has a different meaning.

For example:

'is ton aeona ton apanta' which could be translated as 'in the for ever century' the phrase in itself is equivalent to eternity.

or

'is tous aeonas ton aeonon" which is 'in the centuries of centuries' the phrase again talks about eternity.

Or in figurative speech, I might say, 'o eonas tou xaous', or the century of chaos, I could very well not be talking about a 100 year period, but just an age.

aeonios as an adjective means eternal. I cannot think of a single instance of any person using the word, or any written example where the word does not mean eternal, or is used to point to a period of time.
There is no real use that exists of an adjective describing a century. Just like in engish you will not say 'an 18th centinerian painting' if such a word existed, so in greek we will not say 'o 18o aionikos pinakas'.

BUT

You may consider the phrase 'the 100 year war', and have an adjective decribing the period of 100 years, that relates to the noun war.

In Greek we will not say

'o eonios polemos'. That will mean 'the eternal war'. To say 'the 100 year war', we will say 'o ekatontaetis polemos' the word ekatontaetis being an adjective coming from ekato meaning 100 and etis, meaning year. For 'the 1000 year war' we would say 'o xilietis polemos'.

Now the world eternal could also be translated as 'ateliotos'. But ateliotos is more of an adjective for a never ending physical quantity, an ateliota number of stars for exampls. Aeonios is an eternal measure of time.

My point being, in Greek the world aeonios means eternal despite what the noun might mean. There is never any single instance or circumstance where the word would be used for something else. In fact such a use of the word would be wrong, since it is not what the word means.

We also say for example

"xarison eimas tin aeonion zoi ke to mega eleos' which translates to 'gift to us the eternal life and great mercy'

You should in fact place great care in the meaning of Greek words if you are unfamiliar with the language, especially since most words are derived from combinations or adaptiatons of other words, but may not have the exact same meaning. Or other words may have two meanings.

Let me give you an example

the word epoxi can literally mean any of the 3 month periods, autumn, spring, summer, and winter (forgot what the equivalent word is in English). It can also mean an age, and the adjective 'epoxikos' might be used to describe something that follows general periodicity.

An other example, the word diastima. It can be translated to mean a time interval. E.g. 'diastima pente imeron' a time interval of 5 days. On the other hand, it is also the word used to mean 'outer space'.

If there's any Greek passages you'd like me to translate just point them out.

New Atheist

Just skimmed through page 2 and this hit my eye.

This is what I was talking about the danger of translating Greek when you are not familiar with the language, since most words are combinations of two other words, but may have a different meaning.

Prosxero is a word meaning, 'of the now', 'temporary', 'recent'. It does not mean towards season. It means something temporary, something not eternal.

jgibson000

Umm, does being Greek automatically qualify you as an expert in Koine? Aren't you, in what you've posted, given us the meaning that particular words now have in modern Greek and not necessarily what they meant 2000 years ago? Or do you work from the assumption that Greek hasn't changed at all over 2 millennia?

Jeffrey Gibson

New Atheist

I've also studied and know ancient Greek.

New Atheist

And the grammar and rules change, but the meaning of the words not...

Edited to add: In fact what are you implying, that ancient Greeks used a word differently that what is used today and in a different context than what scholars in ancient Greek believe it was used, that the writers of the new testament used that word meaning this different meaning that you are implying, and that somewhere along the line all of the Greeks suddenly forgot the old meaning, gave the word a different meaning, and to the point where using the word in its old meaning is incorrect and unthinkable?

Chris Weimer

Apparently not very well.

jgibson000

Is that what I implied?

Before we go any further with this, can you tell me what the nature and extent of your familiarity with Koine is?

Jeffrey Gibson

New Atheist

why is that?

Toto

Before we go any further with this, could Chris or Jeffrey point to any errors in New Atheist's explanation of the meaning of aeon?

New Atheist

I know the moden Greek language which has its roots in κοινή. I've also studied the original ancient Greek level, although admitedly not in higher education. I haven't had any formal study in κοινή if that's what you're trying to get me to say. I've also spend my life in a country and an education system obsessed and proud of its language and its roots.

Look, if you want to argue that αιώνιος doesn't mean eternal or whatever, go on, waste your time, you're still wrong.