Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sajara · 06-17-2011, 06:54 AM

Not bothered in the least. Just trying to point out to any lurkers that the whole passage should be read. I may not agree with the contents of the passage on a personal level, but literature is still literature.

aa5874 · 06-17-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Sajara, aa5874 is typically ignored by the veteran members of BC&H. Don't let him bother you.

Please stop your PROPAGANDA. Even you have responded to my posts.

aa5874 · 06-17-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajara

...Paul is clearly saying...IF Jesus did not resurect, THEN we would be wrong...BUT he did resurect, SO we are right....

Please, Please, Please. Stop your nonsense. The DEAD RISE NOT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajara

...I agree with you that it is impossible to resurect the dead...but according to the passage, Paul is saying that it happened...

Look. I just don't understand you. What is going on? Where has your rational gone?

You AGREE with me.

The DEAD RISE NOT.

"Paul" claimed the DEAD did RISE.

"Paul" is FOUND to be a FALSE WITNESS.

This is SO BASIC.

When people claim events happen that could NOT have happened then they are FOUND to be FALSE witnesses.

People are found to be FALSE witness every day when they say events happened that just could NOT have.

Now, there was NEVER a time when there was CHRISTIANITY with Jesus.

Christianity was ALWAYS WITHOUT a real Jesus.

In the NT when Jesus was supposedly ALIVE he DEMANDED that his disciples TELL NO MAN of HIM and to TELL NO MAN he was CHRIST.

There was NO FOLLOWERS of Jesus in the NT that were KNOWN as Christians WHILE Jesus was supposedly on earth.

It was AFTER Jesus had died, RESURRECTED, and ASCENDED in Acts of the Apostles that the disciples WITH the POWER of the Holy Ghost STARTED the Jesus cult of Christians.

Jesus was NOT on earth in Acts and he SENT the Holy Ghost to POWER up the disciples.

Even the Pauline writers appear to CORROBORATE Acts of the Apostles since "Paul" began to PREACH Christ AFTER Jesus had been RAISED from the dead.

The NT EXPLAINS Christianity WITHOUT Jesus.

Look at the words in gMatthew.

Mt 16:20 -

Quote:

Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

The NT is in effect Christianity WITHOUT Jesus.

Dave31 · 06-17-2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

I'm not so sure why this topic is causing so much confusion, but I fear it might come down to folk trying to read more into my intentions than what is actually there.

I only want to understand the MJ position better. I've heard all the 'there is no evidence for Jesus' stuff many times, and am familiar with those arguments.

But, if we remove Jesus from the equation, there is much left unexplained. As an alternative to the HJ position, any MJ position must offer explanations for these things; it is not enough to simply create a void without attempting to fill it.

So are there any MJers other than Toto who would like to take a crack at filling that void?

Jon

Here's a thread that may be helpful The Mythicist Position / History of Mythicism

Sajara · 06-17-2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Please, Please, Please. Stop your nonsense. The DEAD RISE NOT.

Look. I just don't understand you. What is going on? Where has your rational gone?

What nonsense? You are reading into a passage of text where it does not say what you want it to say.

For example:

If ApostateAbe could not kill with his mind, then he is not a world class ninja...but because ApostateAbe could kill with his mind, he is a world class ninja.

If you were to read my example like you presented the Bible passage...you would say that Abe is not a world class ninja simply on the basis that killing with one's mind is impossible...and therefore I (the author of the example) was lying.

On the other hand, the way I read that example is either:
A) I am making the whole thing up
B) I TRULY believe that ApostateAbe can kill with his mind

Whether or not killing with the mind is possible does not demonstrate if the author is lying. Paul may truly believe that Jesus resurrected. I would say that all christians today believe that Jesus resurrected (or else they wouldn't be christian). You are calling them KNOWING LIARS by stating that their beliefs are impossible. In reality they are buying into the supernatural aspect and truly believing that the resurrection is true.

aa5874 · 06-17-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajara

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Please, Please, Please. Stop your nonsense. The DEAD RISE NOT.

Look. I just don't understand you. What is going on? Where has your rational gone?

What nonsense? You are reading into a passage of text where it does not say what you want it to say....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajara

...I agree with you that it is impossible to resurect the dead...but according to the passage, Paul is saying that it happened.....

"Paul" is found to a FALSE witness.

1 Cor.15

Quote:

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas........ And last of all he was seen of me also.......

Based on your own opinion it is IMPOSSIBLE to resurrect the dead so "Paul" could NOT have seen the resurrect Jesus.

"Paul" is found to be a FALSE witness. "Paul" could have ONLY BELIEVED Jesus was RAISED from the dead.

"Paul" was NOT a WITNESS to the supposed resurrection of Jesus.

There is a MASSIVE difference between BELIEVING that Jesus resurrected and claiming that he was the LAST to SEE, TO WITNESS, the resurrected Jesus.

1 Cor.15.

Quote:

....last of all he was seen of me also...

Now, Christianity was ALWAYS WITHOUT Jesus.

In the NT, when Jesus was on earth he COMMANDED that his disciples TELL NO MAN that he was Christ and on the VERY day Jesus went PUBLIC and told the Sanhedrin he was CHRIST , the Jews began to SPIT on him and to BEAT him and he was a DEAD MAN in less than HALF-A-DAY.

Mark 14

Quote:

......Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?.......... 64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

65And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say unto him, Prophesy: and the servants did strike him with the palms of their hands......

Jesus was a "DEAD DUCK" on the very day he went PUBLIC and claimed he was Christ the son of the Blessed.

Again, Christianity was ALWAYS WITHOUT Jesus.

It was AFTER Jesus, described as the Child of the Holy Ghost, was supposedly Executed, Resurrected and Ascended to heaven that he SENT the PROMISED Holy Ghost, the FATHER of the very Jesus, to START the CULT of Jesus Christ.

See Acts 11.

Quote:

..... And the disciples were called Christians FIRST in Antioch...

Sheshbazzar · 06-17-2011, 07:33 PM

Ouch! all of that bloody red gives me a headache.

aa5874 · 06-17-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Ouch! all of that bloody red gives me a headache.

I have a RED letter Bible and ALL the supposed words of Jesus are in RED and I don't have any headaches.

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06-17-2011, 06:54 AM	#71
Sajara Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: New England, USA Posts: 1,596	Not bothered in the least. Just trying to point out to any lurkers that the whole passage should be read. I may not agree with the contents of the passage on a personal level, but literature is still literature.

06-17-2011, 07:33 PM	#77
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Ouch! all of that bloody red gives me a headache.

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