aa5874

You need to be specific.

I am dealing with your mis-leading and erroneous statement that gMatthew was written for a Jewish audience when you cannot even tell when, where and who wrote gMatthew.

sschlichter

Are you referring to my statement or Eduard Shweitzers quote on the plainly jewish content of the book of Matthew?

As a matter of fact don't bother answering. There is no point to having this conversation. I think I will just pour lemon juice in a paper cut instead.

angelo

It seems as you guys are arguing about something that more than likely was nothing more than a good tale made up of hearsays, legends and sheer myth.
We might as well argue about Cinderella's gown and what colour it was than a mythical Judas and whether he kissed Jebus or not.
If the truth of whether Jebus existed can not be proven by reading the gospels. The search has to be outside of the gospels.
There are dozens of books written by historians who lived within one hundred years of this Jebuse's life. there you will find the truth.

rizdek

The 911 examples do not contain contradictory information each one adds to the other. It was not a good example.

sschlichter

the fact that they add to each other makes them a perfect example. They appear to contradict but do not, instead they complement each other. The appearance of contradiction comes in by making assumptions or not taking into account the context of the author or the audience.

sschlichter

unfortunately for those that need this confirmation, that is not the case. Jesus historical footprint was very small for the following reasons.

Jesus did most miracles and teaching in private.

(John 7:3) So Jesus' brothers advised him, "Leave here and go to Judea so your disciples may see your miracles that you are performing.
(John 7:4) For no one who seeks to make a reputation for himself does anything in secret. If you are doing these things, show yourself to the world."
(John 7:5) (For not even his own brothers believed in him.)
(John 7:6) So Jesus replied, "My time has not yet arrived, but you are ready at any opportunity!
(John 7:7) The world cannot hate you, but it hates me, because I am testifying about it that its deeds are evil.

Jesus reveals himself only to a few.

(John 14:22) "Lord," Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "what has happened that you are going to reveal yourself to us and not to the world?"

There was fear of the Pharisees for anyone to confess Christ. Hardly the breeding ground of historical accuracy. this was the atmosphere that resulted in the cricifixion and death of Christ's followers.

(John 9:22) (His parents said these things because they were afraid of the Jewish religious leaders. For the Jewish leaders had already agreed that anyone who confessed Jesus to be the Christ would be put out of the synagogue.

No one besides the Jews would have any reason to have a record of the life of Christ. (ie. the Romans crucifying a criminal is not particularly newsworthy to them.)

In spite fo this, The Talmud does provide a historical mention of Jesus.

It is taught: On the eve of Passover they hung Yeshu and the crier went forth for forty days beforehand declaring that "[Yeshu] is going to be stoned for practicing witchcraft, for enticing and leading Israel astray. Anyone who knows something to clear him should come forth and exonerate him." But no one had anything exonerating for him and they hung him on the eve of Passover.

If you ignore his Spirit, then you are stuck with the record and testimony of his followers. Since, you refuse to even spell his name correctly, I expect his followers have already left a bad taste in your mouth. Sorry for that.

~steve

James Brown

Would that be the Talmud first written around 200 CE?

Do you agree with this same Talmud that asserts that Yeshu is currently in Hell in boiling excrement?

sschlichter

The talmud is oral tradition. this was compiled in 200 - 'first written' is a little misleading. It says he was a sorcerer and led Isreal astray. What does it matter what they think his eternal state is? They did not believe him, obviously, or they would not have had him crucified.

aa5874

Again, mis-leading and erroneous information.

"It is taught" does not mean "it was true". For example, "It was taught Apollo, Zeus, Pluto.....were gods, but this has no bearing on the existence of the gods.

This passage does not even say which century these things were first taught and who were teaching these things.

And further the event in the Talmud contradicts the NT.

Jesus of the NT was crucified for blasphemy, not sorcery, and he was never brought to trial to be stoned forty days before he was crucified.

Doug Shaver

The passage you quote refers to someone by the same name as Jesus of Nazareth. Aside from that, what detail of the Talmud narrative matches anything reported in the gospels?