truthie

I have been searching about UU churches lately and talked to some people. What I have found is that UU churches have been turning more to theism and having a closer affinity with New Age/Neopagan aspects. The latter (New Age/Neopagan) because teens seem to enjoy it more.

Also, I came across issues concerning the fact that UU churches are becoming less tolerant towards non-theism.

T.

truthie

I could use some help (comments) about this issue.

T.

MeMo

Well, Truthie. All I can contribute to this thread is that the UU fellowship that I attend (fairly rarely) seems to be more of a discussion group. The only ritual at a typical meeting is the lighting of the chalice and the sharing of joys and concerns.

Today is a discussion of Islam. There was a Yule and Sowain (sp?) ceremony on those holidays which was lead by the pagan group.

jmem

I do not know about the general movement of the church, but I think that the amount of theism you encounter varies greatly with each congregation. I would guess that my congregation has a majority of atheists and agnostics...there is no mention of any gods in the services and most topics are humanist in nature. We do have a few pagans, but they have their own meetings at the church in addition to the sunday services. They do do a few things that are a little too...I dunno new age? and symbolic for my taste (like stone or water communions) but even then there's no deity involved. Don't know if this is the kind of input that you're looking for, but that's my experience with the UU's.

Solsticin

The UU church me and the wife attend on occasion isn't too bent on theism. The times we have gone (which numbers about 4, I can't see the point frankly, but the wife ... well, you know) they have made an abvious effort to focus on other religious beliefs in the crowd (congregation?).

The first time we went they were focusing on the Pagans (CUPS) group they have there. The next time, Secular Humanists. Certainly gods are discussed in one form or another. I think, for UUs, this is the way to do it though. Inclusiveness is their strong point.

xxthe_leewitxx

I wonder where you've been getting your information? I am a member of a UU congregation, and haven't seen any of the things that you're talking about. Like jmem, I belong to a congregation that has a lot of atheists, agnostics, humanists, and freethinkers in general, though.

The thing to remember about UU congregations is that there is a lot of disparity between them. UUs are governed by congregational polity, which means that each congregation is basically autonomous and self-governing. Therefore, each individual congregation is free to decide how and what to worship (or not).

Given that, it would be difficult to say that Unitarian Universalism is trending toward theism and is being less welcoming to non-theists, because there is no overall policy to dictate something like that. I certainly have not noticed any turn towards neopaganism in the high school Religious Education classes, but perhaps there is something like that happening at some congregation, somewhere.

If you want to know more about Unitarian Universalism, try their website, and visit a few congregations in your area. You might like it, you might hate it, but at least you'd know more than just what people told you.

truthie

I have visited the website. Sounds nice, though, it does not mean that in reality it will be that cool. I am skeptical.

And no, I did not assume that this issue is happening because people told me so, the topic was commented on belief.net forum and atheistsparents.org forum as well as others.

This is an interesting article.

T.

salyed

Hi,

I just wanted to chime in on this as a former UU and a former religious humanist. I am now just a "crusty" atheist with a humanist ethos (as opposed to Objectivist ethos, for example). This phenomenon of moving away from nontheism in UU tends to vary greatly between various UU churches and fellowships. On the whole, I would say that UU is moving away from nontheism in general and tends to support more of a general theism or at least spiritual overtones. You can see this in the articles in the UU World magazine as well as the comments by the current UUA president. There is increased involvement by neopagans, "New Agers", UU Buddhists, et al.

At the same time, there are still many humanists and agnostics involved in many of the UU churches and fellowships (particularly in the Western United States where they did not have to compete with the Ethical Culture movement like on the East Coast). Unitarianism did not really open up to nontheism until the 1940's which caused the rise of religious humanism (as opposed to secular humanism). Historically, both Unitarianism and Universalism were theistic in orientation.

Religious humanism was in vogue because at the time it was expected that people should join and attend a church. Nowadays people are far less inclined to join a church or fellowship. The general decline of religious humanism (in both Unitarian Universalism and Ethical Culture) has, in turn, caused a decline in nontheists in UU churches and fellowships. While nontheism is on the rise, the new, younger generation of nontheists does not generally call themselves humanists or join any of the larger organizations - whether the atheist or humanist organizations or Unitarian Universalism or Ethical Culture. Either they remain independent or they get involved in scientific/naturalistic "pantheism" (of the World Pantheist Movement variety - which is just environmentally aware atheism/humanism using different terminology). There is also the problem among us younger folks with the anti-scientific and anti-empirical bias of postmodernism (which has particularly affected the social sciences). There are exceptions, but they seem to be on the end of the bell curve. Besides, listening to a sermon about why you do not believe something or a politicallly oriented sermon does not seem to be a productive use of time.

Once I found out that I could enjoy celebrations (solstices and equinoxes) and life observances with my wife and children without the religious trappings, then the appeal for religious humanism and UU sort of dissipated for me. I had been involved in 3 different UU congregations in southern California where there had been tension between the older humanist congregants and the younger, more theistic or "spiritual" congregants over the content of sermons, the direction of RE, board elections, etc. Some UU groups have resolved this conflict and others saw an exodus of members from one side or the other. Personally I think that it would be difficult for nontheists and "spiritual" types to co-exist in that type of organization with those types of goals.

David

truthie

Thanks a lot for the comment; I think you hit the point.
Now, it is clear as crystal.

I assume that the reason that humanists/atheists attend UU churches is because they get to meet like-minded people and also the need of social environment. But, with that kind of tension, I wonder how things will end.
Well, it would be impossible to see the creation of a humanist/atheist temple.

T.

salyed

Exactly, it's also usually the same reason that some atheists join American Atheists or a group affiliated with the Atheist Alliance and some humanists join the American Humanist Association or the Council for Secular Humanism. I know there is another group, which is primarily in Texas, called the Church of Freethought which is similar to Ethical Culture in many ways. It has done okay in Texas, but I know an attempt to start one in northern California sort of died on the vine. I think that some people are finding that they do not need religious (or psedo-religious) structures to provide those things.

As far as UU's, it may be cyclical and we might see an new generation of humanists attending UU churches. I tend to think that on the whole the current generation of UU humanists will age away and the UUA will continue in its spiritual direction. Frankly, since the UUA became more theistic and spiritual in content, they started growing in membership. There is little incentive for them to go in the other direction. And as they continue in that route, they would become less appealing to nontheists anyways.

But, as an atheist, I would rather see a growing, vibrant UUA than increasing numbers of right-wing fundamentalists and evangelicals.

David