Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gawen · 04-19-2005, 04:45 PM

Very few people these days can trace back their lineage 10 centuries, let alone a couple hundred years. What makes anyone think that folks 20 centuries ago could trace back their ancestors for 10 further centuries, would do it in the first place?

Chris Weimer · 04-19-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

There is a theory that Matthews gospel conatins Mary's lineage. An Aramaic word is said to have been mistranslated.

The use of orbg in classical and contemporary Aramaic thought.

Judge, actually I was arguing for a scribal change (albeit very early on) of the first aner to pater.

judge · 04-19-2005, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Judge, actually I was arguing for a scribal change (albeit very early on) of the first aner to pater.

OK, I wasn't aware of your argument.
Which text , if any, reads "pater"?

Chris Weimer · 04-20-2005, 12:05 AM

Judge, you blithering <deleted> , you can't say that you aren't aware of my arguement when you were in it not but a few weeks back!

sMacK · 04-20-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Broussard

If Jesus is god, what difference does it make what his ancestry is?

It makes a difference if you believe the bible is the word of God. How inconsistant would you like the word of God to be?

The OT says the Messiah will come from the tribe of David. No Jew would have believed that Jesus was the Messiah, or the Son of God for that matter, if the lineage to David could not be shown. Was his lineage made up? Was Joseph his true father? If Jesus believed his father to be Joseph, and knew he was of the tribe of David, could he have thought he might be the Messiah and been wrong?

Messiah means "King". It does not mean "Son of God". Right?

sharon45 · 04-20-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sMacK

It makes a difference if you believe the bible is the word of God. How inconsistant would you like the word of God to be?

The OT says the Messiah will come from the tribe of David. No Jew would have believed that Jesus was the Messiah, or the Son of God for that matter, if the lineage to David could not be shown. Was his lineage made up? Was Joseph his true father? If Jesus believed his father to be Joseph, and knew he was of the tribe of David, could he have thought he might be the Messiah and been wrong?

Messiah means "King". It does not mean "Son of God". Right?

Nothing wrong with being a son of god in Judaism, just not the way jesus tries to pass himself off as.

Chris Weimer · 04-20-2005, 03:33 PM

sMack - actually Messiah means "anointed one"

Wallener · 04-20-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharon45

Nothing wrong with being a son of god in Judaism, just not the way jesus tries to pass himself off as.

There is not statement in the currently canonical sayings of Jesus that qualifies as "G-d taking" heresy or blasphemy in Judaism.

judge · 04-20-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Judge, you blithering <deleted> , you can't say that you aren't aware of my arguement when you were in it not but a few weeks back!

I do remember an argument, it must have been yours but to be honest i skimmed it and never got the gist of exactly what your idea was, except that you seemed to think matthew gives Mary's lineage.

I am not sure still what evidence you presented. Perhaps I missed the evidence?

Did I actually reply to your particular argument at that time?

Do you recall the thread it was in?

Ok I went back and had a look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Actually evidence points to Matthew's geneology being Mary's.

Aram is the first seven; David is the second seven; Uzziah was the third seven; Jechoniah was the fourth seven; Achim was the fifth seven; Christ, if Mary is the sixth six, is the sixth seven.

In order to make the geneology work, ανη�? has to be construed as father of Mary, and not husband. Then later Matthew would use the same word for Joseph Mary's husband. This probably indicates a second source working on Matthew, maybe very early on people who did not catch the numerology changed πατη�? to ανη�? in order to make it work.

fromhere

As the peshitta seems to corroborate an early belief that Mattew does give Mary's lineage do you have any thoughts on where it fits in?

Thanks.

And by the way how dare you call me a <deleted>

:crying:

I am quite interested in this. Do you have any additional evidence?

Chris Weimer · 04-20-2005, 03:52 PM

Worry not, the deleted word wasn't demeaning, but truthful, and I said in haste, my fault. Here's a better formatted arguement that I made, without all the anti-Bible rhetoric and the differing conversations in the thread.

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04-19-2005, 04:45 PM	#11
Gawen Contributor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart Posts: 10,326	Very few people these days can trace back their lineage 10 centuries, let alone a couple hundred years. What makes anyone think that folks 20 centuries ago could trace back their ancestors for 10 further centuries, would do it in the first place?

04-20-2005, 12:05 AM	#14
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Judge, you blithering <deleted> , you can't say that you aren't aware of my arguement when you were in it not but a few weeks back!

04-20-2005, 03:33 PM	#17
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	sMack - actually Messiah means "anointed one"

04-20-2005, 03:52 PM	#20
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Worry not, the deleted word wasn't demeaning, but truthful, and I said in haste, my fault. Here's a better formatted arguement that I made, without all the anti-Bible rhetoric and the differing conversations in the thread.

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