aa5874

But even in the NT, Jesus asked his disciples not to let anyone know he was Christ.

And further, Jesus was proclaimed Messiah only by Peter, the populace did not call or recognise Jesus as a Messiah.

Jesus was a Messiah by a single revelation.

By the way, Jesus called himself the Son of Man.

Matthew 16:20 - The HJ is senseless.

aa5874

As I have written before the HJ is highly irrational; senseless.

The authors of the NT did not write about a creature that was believed to be human, but was fundamentally superhuman, i.e. divine.

Here is another passage from the writer called Paul where he clearly signifies that Jesus was NOT believed to be a man.

This Pauline writer claimed that he did NOT get his gospel from man, but from Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:10-12 It is clear that Paul did not consider that Jesus was a man.

The HJ is highly irrational.

steve_bnk

He does appear to be on the run at times. The way I look at it is to look at the relgious conflict in the Mulsim mid-east. Many leaders big and small, some we never hear about.

aa5874

It is irrational to argue the history of Jesus without history. This is the fundamental irrationality, the senselessness, of the HJ.

Only, a myth is directly dependent on NO history.

The entire life story of Jesus appears implausible, from conception to ascension. The authors of the NT, his supposed disciples, relatives and believers all wrote about Jesus as though he was God or divine and even provided witnesses and sometimes the authors themselves participated in acts of fiction.

The HJ does not fit the writings of the NT and those of the Church.

Jesus was just a BELIEF. The HJ IS SENSELESS.

steve_bnk

What about

Was there a real Homer?
http://www.cummingsstudyguides.net/HomerBio.html

Was Socrates a literary device for Plato?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates

Herodotus filled in the blanks in his histories

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus

The OT/NT is no less a major part of our literature. The Jesus tale and Christianity is a major componet of our culture and histoiry. If you want to dismiss any discussion related to it as irrational, that is fine. I don't take that view.

My favorite book in the OT is Ecclesiates. The writer has got the ancient down home blues, birds are free and don't have to push a plow all day to eat, what's the point of livung?

The isuues with sifting through the biblical writings are no differnt than any other classical literature. From looking at the relgious turmoil in the region today, to me it makes sense that there was an historical Jesus on which the writings were based.

I'd expect discrepancies.

aa5874

What about Jesus was a literary device? It is clear that he was.

The authors of the NT and the Church writers either believed or fabricated that Jesus existed as a God before he came in the flesh. It is has been documented.

Jesus of the NT was symbolic rather than historic.

I have NOT dismissed any of your responses or any discussion AT ALL. My position that the HJ is SENSELESS was precisely based on discussions, and information found in writings of antiquity.

You must know that it has been documented, and propagated by the Church writers that Jesus was the offspring of the Holy Ghost of God and of a woman who was a virgin.

I can't say that I have a favorite book in the OT. But, it sure seems that the Father of Jesus behaved rather SENSELESSLY at times.

It is reasonable to assume that biblical writings are no different than other literature, and I have sifted through the biblical writings, the writings of the Church and even some external of the Church and have concluded that the HJ is SENSELESS or highly irrational.

Now, if you think that the HJ is a rational proposition, then I expected you to present the pertinent information that led you to hold such a position.

So, far you have not produce one single piece of information that can support your view that the HJ is not SENSELESS.

I was really hoping for sources or information that can show that the HJ is not highly irrational but you have come up empty-handed.

[ But, there are no discrepancies with the resurrection, virtually every single writer in the NT and the Church claimed Jesus did resurrect within three days. And Paul with over 500 people documented that he saw Jesus in a resurrected state sometime after the third day of his burial.

If there was an HJ, I would expect discrepancies in the resurrection, there are none.

The HJ is SENSELESS.

jgoodguy

"if HJ means something like a real guy who conforms to the claims of the gospels then you're right." Normally that dude is referred to as the Gospel Jesus GP.

Historical Jesus HJ some historical preacher that somehow is the basis for the Christ of the Gospels.
Mythical Jesus MJ a fictional historical preacher was somehow made the Christ of the Gospels.
Gospel Jesus GJ the person of the Gospels existed as the Gospels describe.

The argument is being made that the HJ and GJ are the same in order to discredit the HJ. So far I find the argument unconvincing as it implicitly assumes the Gospels to be written as accurate history. If that assumption is false, then any association with a HJ is doubtful.

aa5874

You are openly contradicting yourself.

In the very first part of your response you claim the HJ CONFORMS to the GJ, yet in the last part you are now incredibly claiming the conformity is to discredit the HJ.

And if the Gospels were not written as accurate history then how can the HJ be derived?

From unconvincing guesswork!

Once the Gospels are fundamentally fiction, then it can easily be theorized that Jesus too was fundamentally fiction, just a belief, not history.

THE HJ IS SENSELESS.

steve_bnk

Uhhhh..senseles like all of humanity? Pet rocks, 'pro' wrestling, soap operas. Bob Dylan worship, ...what parts of our human cultures make rational sense?

steve_bnk

What's with the obsession? On a mission to save us from Jesus?

I agree that OT god was not a nice guy. Rightious good guy Job is led into ruin on a bet with Satan.

An historical JC does not infer a figure who matches up to the gospels in the embellishments.

From here and other forums in years past there are people who will swear that the Transcendental Meditation folks actualy do levitate, never having seen it.

The story making is going on all around in many forms.

A good example is the creation of the modern vampire myth originating with a real life figure.

As the saying goes, all tales and myths have a basis in fact.

There was likey an histoirical Noah who had a watery adventure with his family, The Discovery Channel did a composite profile of a likley person.