Malachi151

Yeah, you're right, we should stop telling the truth....

Jedi Mind Trick

Is it the truth? :wave:

post tenebras lux

Well 'John' obviously (in the sense that I'm asking).

John is to Blackwater as X is to Mohammed. What is X? :huh:

Malachi151

LOL, but your name is based on the fictional charater in the Christian mythology, whose name was invented in typical Jewish tradition, just like Adam means earth, Eve means to give life, Moses means deliverer, and Samson means of the Sun, etc. The funny think about Jewish mythology is that they named all the charaters for their roles in the stories, whcih makes it extra obvious that these people are made up.

Codec

There is really very little evidence for the historic Dawkins, he is more a set of ideas and metaphors that took root in the 20th century, than a real person.

Jedi Mind Trick

This may be true but the oft repeated "they never existed" seems a little strained to me. Can you give me a reason why I shouldn’t see it as strained?

Jedi Mind Trick

So you are saying there was no Yohanan in history?

Maybe so, but the claim still seems strained to me.

Malachi151

It should really be no suprize that these figures are made up. They are idalized story book characters who were supposedly "perfect in every way", said all the right things, had all the right history, etc., etc. We have 6 billion people on earth today, how many perfect people have you met? None. That's why they created these fictional people to base religions on. No doubt these stories were believed by the people telling them, they started with rumors and grew and were embellished by well meaning who were imposing thier idealized beliefs about a leader that they wish existed onto a cultural and religious backdrop and framework , after a couple hundred years of such activity, a collective idealized hero figure emerges to become the supernatural leader of the people.

Its a common phenomenon, that has occured in many cultures, and still happens today, and we should start studying this phenomenon and seeing how it works and why.

post tenebras lux

I'm just asking a question. People claim that he existed, so I just ask what his name was. I know what Caligula's real name was, and I know what Paris' real name was, so why can't I know Mohammed's real name? Particularly as I know the names of all 50 of Mohammed's patrilineal ancestors. :huh:

The type of non-answers I've received, together with the way many muslims are quick to boast that "(unlike Jesus Christ) Mohammed is provably historic" but then just as quickly try to change the topic when I start raising queries to their claimed evidence, suggests to me that there may well be little or no evidence supporting the claim that Mohammed actually existed.

Jedi Mind Trick

Where I work the director of Information Technology has as his last name "Data" as in "Jim Data." Was he invented by corporate mind controllers?