aa5874

In gMatthew and gMark the Jews did NOT recognize the character called Jesus as Christ. In fact, it is recorded in the Canonised gMatthew and gMark that Jesus did NOT want his disciples to tell a single person ( no man) that he was Christ.

Mt 16:20 - Mr 8:30 - So, based on gMatthew and gMark, when Jesus was supposedly alive no JEW knew of him as Christ.

Up to the day Jesus was crucified in gMatthew and gMARK Jesus was NOT KNOWN to the Jews as a Messiah and REJECTED Jesus as Christ when he publicly made the claim for the very FIRST time before the Sanedrin.

And further, the author of gMatthew did STATE that HEROD the Great KILLED all the children that was about 2 years old so as to ELIMINATE the Christ.

From the START to the END of the Matthean and Markan story, Jesus came and disappeared without being recognized as the Christ.

This is EXTREMELY significant.

For the ENTIRE life of Jesus documented in gMatthew and gMark, Jesus was publicly UNKOWN as Christ by Jews.

And this is EXACTLY what is found in the writings of Philo and Josephus. The Jewish writers wrote NOTHING about a Messiah called Jesus.

Josephus FOUGHT against the Romans EXPECTING Jewish Messianic rulers at around 70 CE. See "Wars of the Jews" 6.5.4

In fact it is Documented that Josephus claimed and TOLD Vespasian that he was the Messianic ruler PREDICTED in Hebrew Scripture. See "WARS of the Jews" 6.5.4

Philo went to Rome to tell Gaius the Emperor of Rome that Jews do NOT worship Man as a God and that no effigies of him should be placed in the temples of worship of the Jews. See "On Embassy to Gaius".

Now, the writings of gLuke are CONTRARY to 1st century Jewish writings.

The author of gLuke claimed Jesus was KNOWN as Christ and Savior to people in Judea on the very day he was born of a Ghost and a woman as reported by ANGELS.


Luke 2 The author of gLuke is MULTIPLE attested to be a FICTION writer. There was NO character recognized as a Messiah by the Jews with the name Jesus from the day he was supposedly born to the day he disappeared

The Jews EXPECTED a Messiah at around c70 CE based on Hebrew Scripture, according to Josephus, Suetonius and Tacitus.

The Matthean and Markan Jesus Christ was UNKNOWN to the Jews from INVENTION to ASCENSION which is COMPATIBLE with the writings of Philo and Josephus, Suetonius and Tacitus.

It was Vespasian who was KNOWN as the MESSIAH and SAVIOR.

This is Josephus on Vespasian.

"Wars of the Jews" 7.4.1

Tommy

Human sacrafice and the taking on of another's sins are prohibited in the pentateuch so it is unlikely that the Jesus of the NT could ever be accepted a Messiah.

aa5874

Incredibly, In gMatthew and gMark, Jesus Christ claimed he really wanted the Jews to REMAIN in SIN and that their SINS should NOT be forgiven..

The Matthean and Markan Jesus Christ did NOT really tell the Jews he was a SACRIFICE for their Sins.

Mark4 It is IMPERATIVE that it is understood that the Jesus story in gMark and gMatthew is NOT a Salvation story but a STORY of Destruction for the Jews.

In gMatthew and gMark, the Jews did NOT recognise Jesus as the Messiah at anytme and Jesus made SURE that the Jews did NOT by speaking in Parables and ORDERED his disciples to REFRAIN from even telling anyone he was the Messiah.

In fact, in gMatthew and gMark, Jesus Christ did NOT even INITIALLY tell his own disciples he was the Messiah, it was Peter who TOLD Jesus that he was the Messiah.

This is EXTREMELY Significant.

It was Peter WHO FIRST told the disciples that Jesus was the Messiah, NOT Jesus.

Mt 16:16 - The claim that Jesus Christ was a SACRIFICE for the Sins of the Jews and ALL Mankind are LATER INVENTIONS by the Pauline writers and gJohn.

Juststeve

As between Paul and the Gospels Paul could not be a later invention since he wrote first. If there was something aptly described as a later invention it would be the Gospel accounts. Paul's was the earlier invention.

Steve

TedM

Why, of all people, are YOU relying on GMatthew and GMark for any information at all aa? YOU have shouted to the board thousands of times about how we can't rely on ANYTHING in the gospels because they contain fiction and therefore are UNRELIABLE and LOGICAL FALLACIES and NOT CREDIBLE SOURCES. And yet, here you are relying on them as credible sources in order to make your argument.

Sounds hypocritical to me. Care to explain yourself?

Ted

Minimalist

Or would be if these books were not the heavily edited ramblings of later xtian writers.

JoeWallack

JW:
Boom!(@ 45 seconds)



Joseph

ErrancyWiki

dog-on

Or maybe Mark was just explaining why no one ever heard of Paul's Christ Jesus.

aa5874

Enough of your BS. Please, stop your UNSUBSTANTIATED claims. You don't even know what you are talking about.

Even the Church claimed a Pauline writer was AWARE of gLuke.


In the Pauline writings, a writer claimed Jesus Christ DIED, was BURIED and was RAISED from the dead on the THIRD day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES.

There were WRITTEN sources about the death and the THIRD DAY resurrection of Jesus available to a Pauline writer in the Pauline writings.

There is ZERO Hebrew Scripture that claim Jesus Christ was raised From the dead on the THIRD DAY.

1 Cor 15
Now, in gMatthew and gMark, Jesus did NOT publicly claim or TEACH that he would DIE for the Sins of all Mankind and This is in agreement with History. Jewish writers Philo and Josephus wrote ZERO about any character called Jesus Christ that was KNOWN to have claimed he was the END of the LAW.

aa5874

Please, tell me where did I EVER WRITE that gMatthew and gMark are credible?

You do not appear to understand what is EVIDENCE!!!

You do NOT appear to understand the WRITTEN TESTIMONY of gMatthew and gMark!!!

Please tell me where I can find what is written in gMatthew and gMark?

The WRITTEN statements in gMatthew and gMark is that Jesus Christ did NOT want the Jews to be converted but to REMAIN IN SIN, did NOT tell his disciples he was Christ before Peter did so, and still BARRED his disciples from telling anyone he was Christ.

In effect, the Jesus Christ of gMatthew and gMark, from INVENTION to ASCENSION, was UNKNOWN to the Jews which is completely compatible and corroborated by Jewish writings in the 1st century.

Jewish writings do NOT corroborate, I REPEAT, DO not corroborate, gMatthew and gMark when they claimed that Jesus was the Child of a Ghost, walked on water, TRANSFIGURED, and was RAISED from the dead on the THIRD day and was seen by the disciples.


Jewish writings corroborate that the Matthean and Markan Jesus Christ was UNKNOWN to the Jews.