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Old 01-13-2001, 08:50 AM   #1
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Post Revelation 17-18

This is one of the only parts of Revelation that made clear rational sence to me. Chapters 17 and 18 deal exclusively with "the punishment of the great prostitute who sits on many waters" This part of the book he didn't use alot of excessive symbolism. The first time I read this the first thing to spring to my mind was "America". It speaks alot about materialism etc. etc.

______17

1
One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters.
2
With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries."
3
Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
4
The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.
5
This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6
I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished.
7
Then the angel said to me: "Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns.
8
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
9
"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.
10
They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.
11
The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
12
"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.
13
They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.
14
They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
15
Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.
16
The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
17
For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled.
18
The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

____18

1
After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor.
2
With a mighty voice he shouted: "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil [1] spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
3
For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."
4
Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5
for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.
6
Give back to her as she has given; pay her back double for what she has done. Mix her a double portion from her own cup.
7
Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, `I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.'
8
Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.
9
"When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her.
10
Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry: "`Woe! Woe, O great city, O Babylon, city of power! In one hour your doom has come!'
11
"The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more--
12
cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble;
13
cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.
14
"They will say, `The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your riches and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.'
15
The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn
16
and cry out: "`Woe! Woe, O great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
17
In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!' "Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off.
18
When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, `Was there ever a city like this great city?'
19
They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out: "`Woe! Woe, O great city, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!
20
Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you.'"
21
Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said: "With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down, never to be found again.
22
The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No workman of any trade will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.
23
The light of a lamp will never shine in you again. The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again. Your merchants were the world's great men. By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24
In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth."

 
Old 01-13-2001, 12:03 PM   #2
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Actually, IIRC, this is the passage commonly interpreted as refering to Rome. The seven heads/seven hills analogy, the color purple (the imperial color of Rome), the reference to the "the great city that rules over the kings of the earth ... For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries ... " And so on.

But then, that's reading it historically, the way it should be. I suppose that, like Nostrodomus, you could likely interpret the "prophecy" any way you wished ... much like the rest of the Bible.

--W@L
 
Old 01-14-2001, 06:46 PM   #3
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Here are three red flag warnings for those who attempt to interpret Revelation:

1) No knowledge of 1st century temple liturgy, on which Revelation draws much of its imagery. (i.e. 24 elders correspond to the 24 families of priests who ministered in the temple)

2) No knowledge of intertestamental apocalypses. Many allusions are made, and an understanding of how the genre works is necessary. Many ambiguous "symbols" are actually borrowed from other works. These works have contexts which lend interpretive light. (i.e. locusts with faces like men and a thunderous crown. This is not a helicopter as some take it)

3) Treating prophecy like a road map of the future. Though many do this, this is a big no-no. Biblical prophets will speak of both the immediate future and distant future together and not see the valleys of time in between. While there are predictive elements, its intended purpose is to give a present day message. It makes sense of the past and uses the future to speak to a modern issue. Future knowledge is on a sort of "need to know" basis only.
 
Old 01-15-2001, 11:05 AM   #4
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I love Revelations, it so grovey. The christian end of the world is so much more interseting than the sun eating us. I think this is the best reson to turn christain
 
Old 02-04-2001, 06:53 AM   #5
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[This message has been edited by Chas2 (edited February 05, 2001).]
 
Old 02-04-2001, 12:32 PM   #6
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eagles:
This is one of the only parts of Revelation that made clear rational sence to me. Chapters 17 and 18 deal exclusively with "the punishment of the great prostitute who sits on many waters" This part of the book he didn't use alot of excessive symbolism. The first time I read this the first thing to spring to my mind was "America". It speaks alot about materialism etc. etc.

Those of us who have spent some time reading and studying the Apocalypse, as written by someone named "John" on the island of Patmos, understand that the message, whatever its precise meaning, was meant for a contemporary audience and no one else. How do we know this? Well, let's look at what the writer wrote:

1. "Blessed is he who reads aloud the words of prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written therein; for the time is near." Rev 1:3

Two things are evident in the above passage: First of all, according to the writer, any person who read the book aloud would receive a magical blessing. So would those who heard it, and so would those who kept it as an amulet. Second, the writer believed ALL things prophecied would take place very soon.

2. "Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him." 1:7

Here, the writer states that even Jesus' executioners would see "the Christ" who was soon to "come with the clouds."

3. "Fear God and give him glory, for the hour of his judgement has come" 14:7

This passage and those that follow conclusively demonstrate the writer's belief that the End was imminent. This would be relevant only to a contemporary audience.

4. "And he said to me, 'These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place." 22:6

5. "And behold, I am coming soon." 22:7

6. "And he said to me, 'Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." 22:10

7. "He who testifies to these things says, 'Surely I am coming soon.'" 22:20

At no point in the Apocalypse did the writer speak of the United States. His message was meant for first century followers of Jesus.




[This message has been edited by penatis (edited February 04, 2001).]
 
 

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