Freethought & Rationalism Archive

smugg · 10-01-2001, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Terracotta:
Also, don't forget that Paul WAS NOT A JEW, therefore it is unlikely he would have written according to Jewish literary customs. He was a Roman citizen. And most of his writings were not to Jews; they were to Gentile Christians.

Hate to be argumentative, but Paul was both a Roman and a Jew.

Justus · 10-01-2001, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Terracotta:
Also, don't forget that Paul WAS NOT A JEW, therefore it is unlikely he would have written according to Jewish literary customs. He was a Roman citizen. And most of his writings were not to Jews; they were to Gentile Christians.

Philippians 3 : 4 -6
Though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so

Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Isreal, of the tribe of benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law a Pharisee;

concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning righteousness which is in the law blameless
------------------------------
It seems in the US there are many with Hyphanted Identities Native - American , Italian-Americans , Asian-Americans etc.

True Paul believed he was anointed to preach to the gentiles which is an issue i have often wondered about especially in light of his disagrements with Peter / James and the church in Jerusalem ... the question of Paul's roots, motivation and authority is worth exploring. Unfortunately most questions will go unanswered (except for speculation and the "Offical" line).

Edited to correct glaring spelling errors OK

[ October 01, 2001: Message edited by: Justus ]

GunnerJ · 10-01-2001, 02:59 PM

Quote:

What does "and the angel had 3 pairs of wings, one that covered its eyes, one used to fly, and one used to cover its feet." By your interpretation we would picture a flying angel with six wings, covering its head and feet. but thats not what an ancient Hebrew would picture. Becuase to "cover ones feet" is the polite way to say "to cover ones genitalia". That is why you need to read into the culture more.

And what the ancient Hebrews would have interpreted it as is important, I'll agree. What do you suppose they would have made of Jesus's claim that amung those he was preaching to, one of them would live to see his return? That God would keep one of them around for 2000 years to make cryptic proclaimations in Aremaeic(sp?) to the lead character in the Left Behind books?

Deathscyth Hell · 10-01-2001, 07:57 PM

Quote:

And what the ancient Hebrews would have interpreted it as is important, I'll agree. What do you suppose they would have made of Jesus's claim that amung those he was preaching to, one of them would live to see his return? That God would keep one of them around for 2000 years to make cryptic proclaimations in Aremaeic(sp?) to the lead character in the Left Behind books?

?. What scripture is this? What scripture says that any of his origional followers would live to see his return? Please enlighten me, because I don't remember such existing.

Justus · 10-01-2001, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deathscyth Hell:


?. What scripture is this? What scripture says that any of his origional followers would live to see his return? Please enlighten me, because I don't remember such existing.

Matthew 16 : 28
Assuredly I say to you there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son Of Man coming in his Kingdom.

Luke 9:27 But I tell you turly there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Kingdom of God

Justus · 10-01-2001, 08:27 PM

In addition The Gospel of John seems to take notice of these earlier statements attributed to Jesus ... by adding an explaination which i think is interesting

John 21: 20 - 25

23) Then this saying went out among the brethern that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would no die but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you"

GunnerJ · 10-02-2001, 03:37 PM

Quote:

In addition The Gospel of John seems to take notice of these earlier statements attributed to Jesus ... by adding an explaination which i think is interesting
John 21: 20 - 25

23) Then this saying went out among the brethern that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would no die but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you"

Excellent! You have shined new light on the subject with the Truth of Scripture!

How wonderful that John is able to provide information about Jesus's sayings that the much earlier writers, Matthew, Mark and Luke, didn't know about, and that his new info so aptly "cleans up" after a verifiable flase prophesy from earlier Gospel versions.

It seems strange that, a few dacades after Jesus's death, Matthew and Luke made the extrodinary claim that some of the people he preached to will be alive when he returns. Then, even more decades later, John found out that Jesus would be magically sustaining one of those people until the date he returns (which he confessed he was unsure of.) Yet, the Lord said it, and I believe it.

That startling news that Jesus would be keeping someone alive for however many thousands of years it took to return seems like the type of thing Mark, or Matt, or Luke would have written down. However, Matt and Luke seem to think that Jesus said he would be returning in a way that suggested it would happen very soon. Paul seems to have interprited Jesus's words that way, if any of his epistles are evidence. He even suggests that people not get married, because Jesus's return would be so soon that they wouldn't have any time to enjoy married life! I know I'm going to take his advice!

It seems just to fit so wonderfully. Perhaps eighty years after the death of Jesus, during a time when, given the low lifespan of people at the time, the idea of Jesus returning during the lifetime of those he preached to seemed patently absurd, John just happened to have some information about the words of a man he never met, clearimg up so well a prediction by Jesus that could have been very embarrassing for the Christian church in another ten years. So glorious are the ways of the Lord!

It seems John liked the idea of contrived plot devices as much as Jerry B. Jenkins and Tim LaHaye.

(PS- I am aware that this is what you were trying to say, Justus, but it might have been to subtle for some.)

[ October 02, 2001: Message edited by: Rimstalker ]

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10-01-2001, 08:27 PM	#16
Justus Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: upstate NY USA Posts: 54	In addition The Gospel of John seems to take notice of these earlier statements attributed to Jesus ... by adding an explaination which i think is interesting John 21: 20 - 25 23) Then this saying went out among the brethern that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would no die but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you"

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