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Old 11-27-2001, 08:47 AM   #11
Kyzra
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1. To you, what is the Christian faith? Sum it up, no more than 50 words please.

which version?

2. What do you feel is the strongest evidence that discredits the veracity of the Christian faith?

missing god.

3. What do you dislike the most about Christianity?

the usual stuff: self-righteousness, hypocricy, intollerance, ignorance.

4. What do you like best about Christianity?

charity stuff is always good. but then again, they do it only by stuffing dogma as they stuff food.

5. List 5 qualities you like about Christianity. Please keep them brief.

see above.

6. List 5 qualities you dislike about Christianity. Please keep them brief.

see above.

7. What would you do if you found out God really existed and that He sent His Son Jesus to die for your sins? You also find out that you need to surrender your life and will to Him and ask him to forgive you of your sins. Would you?

if everything in the bible was true: i would never submit to such a tyrant, even if it meant eternal punishment. my will is my own.

if the bible got it all wrong: i would give god a chance to prove his worth. my respect and loyalty are not freely given, they have to be earned.

8. Are Christianity and the Bible mutually exclusive? Explain. List 5 examples if you can. Be brief.

other than the false prophecies of christ, the butchering of scripture, the pauline edicts, the church dogma, the integrated pagan customs... nah... totally compatible.

9. What are your three favorite Biblical contradictions?

too many to pick and choose from.

10. Is the Bible a good source of moral values? Why or why not?

no. it teaches a whole bunch of barbaric tribal morals that along with the civilized ones.

11. List 6 "good" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)

i'll condense it to 1: love your neighbor.

12. List 6 "bad" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)

i'll condense it to 1: hate your neighbor.

13. List any character flaws you can think of concerning Jesus as presented in the Gospels. If you are a Christ-Myther you can still answer this one.

well, this would make a long essay but let's just have one here for the sake of arguments: curse defensless fig trees for not bearing fruit out of season.

14. How much of the Bible have you read?

pretty much all of it. except the long boring begat parts.

15. Positive experiences with believers? List a few if you like.

"hello good neighbor..."

16. Negative experience with believers? List a few if you like.

" ...your going to hell!"

17. How would you classify yourself? Solipsist, atheist (strong, weak), agnostic etc? Please provide a brief description.

i belong to a secret organisation bent on restoring the OT god back to it's rightful place. our goals (hence, god's goals) are to re-establish male dominance and slavery, to massacre the heathens, heretics, infidels, witches, homosexuals, disobedient children and pretty much everyone else who disagrees with our views of the great and wonderous god.

18. What is the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear the word Apologetics?

excuses.

19. Can Christians be open-minded?

to an extent.

20. Was Christ a historical figure? Why or why not?

perhaps, but not a divine figure. he might have been a moral teacher before the pauline edicts took over and turned him into osiris.

21. If you said he was a historical figure then who do you think he really was before the Biblical authors took hold of him? Was he a teacher? Did he claim to be God? Did he die? Be brief.

see above.

22. Does a contradiction in the Bible discredit the entire thing? Does it discredit the Christian faith? Why or why not. Be brief.

not a contradiction, it would take many contradictions. not just mistakes or mistranslation, but ideological contradictions.

23. Is abortion okay? Why or why not. Be brief.

ask me again if i miraclously turn into a female and become pregnant with an unwanted child.

24. A concluding postscript. Here you can go on a 100 word rant on any subject you want pertaining to Christianity. This is optional.

i don't like limits on my inspiration so i will skip this rant of 100 words.
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Old 11-27-2001, 09:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by ilgwamh:
<STRONG>I'd appreciate it if you'd fill this out if you have some time. I want to understand non-Christian positions a little better.

1. To you, what is the Christian faith? Sum it up, no more than 50 words please.
</STRONG>
This question (and many of the others) is flawed because it assumes that "the Christian faith" is a set of beliefs ascribed to by all Christians.

There are Christian faiths. The NT itself contains several: Pauline Xty, Johannine, Judaizing, Petrine, Jamesian - all mutually exclusive. Even the view of Jesus is radically different depending on which gospel you choose.

The early church was fragmented into Gnostic, Ebionite, Orthodox, Marcionite and other factions. Eventually the Orthodox position won out. They determined the canon and killed or excommunicated all heretics.

Nowadays, there are 33,800 Christian denominations which can be grouped into about 130 families. Each claims to have the truest and purest form of Christianity.

So which form of Christianity would you like defined?

As for your other questions, pick one and I'll answer it.
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Old 11-27-2001, 09:29 AM   #13
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1. To you, what is the Christian faith? Sum it up, no more than 50 words please.

Today at least, a belief that a man named Jesus lived 2000 years ago and somehow reconciled us to God, whether it be through his death, his resurrection, his teachings, or all of the above. Most insist on the uniqueness and necessity of Jesus's efforts; most also hold to some view of the afterlife, and have requirements for inclusion in their groups that exclude other people who call themselves Christian.

2. What do you feel is the strongest evidence that discredits the veracity of the Christian faith?

Lack of evidence, when evidence for other things is so rampant. I would expect an unquestionably existing God to leave at least some traces of his presence or action.

3. What do you dislike the most about Christianity?

Many groups are either intolerant by default or actively promote bigotry. See here, or here, or here. Further, those who are raised in a church often find themselves saddled with an inordinate and unreasonable amount of guilt (although in all fairness, this is not by any means unique to Christianity).

4. What do you like best about Christianity?

Many groups are very tolerant and provide great benefit to the community.

5. List 5 qualities you like about Christianity. Please keep them brief.

- It has a fascinating history;
- It inspires great art and music;
- Sometimes it will cause a spectacular group of people to form together.

6. List 5 qualities you dislike about Christianity. Please keep them brief.

- It can promote fear of thought and learning;
- It can promote hatred and intolerance.

7. What would you do if you found out God really existed and that He sent His Son Jesus to die for your sins? You also find out that you need to surrender your life and will to Him and ask him to forgive you of your sins. Would you?

Presumably this discovery, or another, would also convince me that sin is a meaningful concept, and that I actually do have such a property. If that is the case, and I were also convinced that God (who was nowhere to be found during my years of searching) were worth serving, then of course I would.

8. Are Christianity and the Bible mutually exclusive? Explain. List 5 examples if you can. Be brief.

With few exceptions, each version of Christianity holds that it (and often only it) correctly interprets the Bible, and defines its own efforts as correctly following the Bible, so it's not obvious that my opinion here would be useful.

9. What are your three favorite Biblical contradictions?

In my own study I don't find focusing on contradictions in the Bible to be useful, and I don't seek them out any more than I try to find contradictions in the Iliad or Odyssey.

10. Is the Bible a good source of moral values? Why or why not?

I would argue that no single book is an adequate exhaustive source for morality for all time. Even Christians will agree that the Bible can certainly be misused, so it would seem that you also need to add a good deal of sense to it even if you are a believer.

11. List 6 "good" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)

- Love your neighbor
- Obey a reasonable government
- Do unto others, etc.
- Seek knowledge (Proverbs)
- Don't be careless or stupid (Proverbs, paraphrase)
- Treat a fool as his folly deserves (Also Proverbs)

12. List 6 "bad" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)

- Kill witches, etc.
- Seek God's purposes (when it is used to mean "the purposes of the priesthood or church leaders").
- Punish adulterous women but not adulterous men.
- Kill disobedient children.
- Don't associate with those who disagree with you (cf. 2 John).

13. List any character flaws you can think of concerning Jesus as presented in the Gospels. If you are a Christ-Myther you can still answer this one.

He seems dangerously intolerant in the cleansing of the temple, having little regard for the political center of Judaism; and one might argue that his comments to the Samaritan woman ("Don't throw the children's bread to the dogs") is racist.

14. How much of the Bible have you read?

The entire book, quite a few times; I'm currently working my way through the NT in Greek.

15. Positive experiences with believers? List a few if you like.

I belonged to a couple of wonderful churches with terrific people.

16. Negative experience with believers? List a few if you like.

Since becoming a moderator here, I've received several harassing e-mails, and occasionally endure jabs against closed-minded unbelievers from Christians I encounter. It's nothing really terrible, and others have encountered much worse.

17. How would you classify yourself? Solipsist, atheist (strong, weak), agnostic etc? Please provide a brief description.

Weak atheist; I have no belief in God or the supernatural, but I don't say that such things don't exist.

18. What is the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear the word Apologetics?

William Lane Craig, J.P. Moreland, and Hugh Ross, three of my favorite authors when I was a Christian.

19. Can Christians be open-minded?

Yes.

20. Was Christ a historical figure? Why or why not?

Jesus probably was; considering the evidence I think it's more likely that he was an actual person. Whether he was God's anointed is another matter entirely.

21. If you said he was a historical figure then who do you think he really was before the Biblical authors took hold of him? Was he a teacher? Did he claim to be God? Did he die? Be brief.

If he really lived, then I am inclined to believe that he really died as well. Beyond that, I don't know.

22. Does a contradiction in the Bible discredit the entire thing? Does it discredit the Christian faith? Why or why not. Be brief.

Not by itself, but it does bring up the question of what parts are still credible, and how we tell what those parts are. In many people's minds that leads to the collapse of the whole thing, but not always.

23. Is abortion okay? Why or why not. Be brief.

I would argue that it is not categorically wrong; even the life-for-a-life OT prescribes considerably weaker penalties for causing a woman to miscarry than it does for accidentally killing a child.

24. A concluding postscript. Here you can go on a 100 word rant on any subject you want pertaining to Christianity. This is optional.

Thanks a lot.

I don't envy you the time it will take to read all these responses, but your efforts are appreciated.
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Old 11-27-2001, 09:59 AM   #14
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1. To you, what is the Christian faith? Sum it up, no more than 50 words please.

One big mistake, a useful device for controlling people.

2. What do you feel is the strongest evidence that discredits the veracity of the Christian faith?

There is no evidence supporting the veracity of the Christian faith. Any honest Christian will admit that

3. What do you dislike the most about Christianity?

Its fundamental intellectual dishonesty

4. What do you like best about Christianity?

Its medieval architecture and some of its music (except for the lyrics).

5. List 5 qualities you like about Christianity. Please keep them brief.

Can’t think of any now

6. List 5 qualities you dislike about Christianity. Please keep them brief.

Dishonesty, rigidity, sexual repression, intolerance, willingness to believe fairy tales.

7. What would you do if you found out God really existed and that He sent His Son Jesus to die for your sins? You also find out that you need to surrender your life and will to Him and ask him to forgive you of your sins. Would you?

It would depend on how I found out that this fairy tale was true. I might check myself into the nearest mental hospital to have my delusions cleared out.

8. Are Christianity and the Bible mutually exclusive? Explain. List 5 examples if you can. Be brief.

I don’t understand this. The Bible contradicts itself.

9. What are your three favorite Biblical contradictions?

Pass

10. Is the Bible a good source of moral values? Why or why not?

The Bible is a terrible source of moral values. You can find justification for anything in it.

11. List 6 "good" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)

Only one – the golden rule. (not original there)

12. List 6 "bad" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)

Child sacrifice is okay if God says so, or if you promised it to God.
Killing Canaanites is okay with God.
Disobedient children and adulterers should be stoned.
Rape victims should marry the rapist.
Women should keep silent in church and submit to their husbands.
The government rules by divine right so just obey it(Romans).

13. List any character flaws you can think of concerning Jesus as presented in the Gospels. If you are a Christ-Myther you can still answer this one.

He did not bring peace, but a sword; he spoke in obscure parables that left his meaning unclear to this day; he upheld the Jewish laws (or did he?); he was judgmental and condemned his enemies to hellfire.

14. How much of the Bible have you read?

Most of it.

15. Positive experiences with believers? List a few if you like.

Not as believers.

16. Negative experience with believers? List a few if you like.

Being raised in a traditional Christian environment.

17. How would you classify yourself? Solipsist, atheist (strong, weak), agnostic etc? Please provide a brief description.

Weak atheist. I don’t believe that there is a god, but I don’t think that god can be disproved, although the Christian God can be disproved.

18. What is the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear the word Apologetics?

“theological spin doctors” – Robert Price

19. Can Christians be open-minded?

No – Christianity closes the mind. Christians can only be open-minded if they are not true Christians.

20. Was Christ a historical figure? Why or why not?

Trick question. “Christ” is a spiritual figure. You probably meant to ask if Jesus was a historical figure, and I am agnostic on this. I don’t think that there is enough historical evidence to show he existed, but a lot of evidence was lost or destroyed.

21. If you said he was a historical figure then who do you think he really was before the Biblical authors took hold of him? Was he a teacher? Did he claim to be God? Did he die? Be brief.

If a person existed who was the basis of the Christian religion, he was a teacher, did not claim to be god. He certainly died, but probably not on a cross.

22. Does a contradiction in the Bible discredit the entire thing? Does it discredit the Christian faith? Why or why not. Be brief.

Any contradiction discredits the idea that the Bible is inerrant. Once you admit that the Bible has some errors, you have no real guide as to how many, so 99% of it could be erroneous.

23. Is abortion okay? Why or why not. Be brief.

Abortion is a medical procedure that should be available freely. An abortion up to 3 months is birth control after the fact, and after that should be a matter between the woman and her medical provider. There are entirely too many people on this earth right now, and there is no need to force motherhood on any unwilling woman.

24. A concluding postscript. Here you can go on a 100 word rant on any subject you want pertaining to Christianity. This is optional.

I get really annoyed with Christians who come to this board and ask questions like this. I want you to reveal your hand. Is this a school assignment? What are you getting out of it? Do you propose to reply to all of the answers?
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Old 11-27-2001, 10:02 AM   #15
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Okay, I will answer this one.

Quote:
Originally posted by ilgwamh:
<STRONG>
13. List any character flaws you can think of concerning Jesus as presented in the Gospels. If you are a Christ-Myther you can still answer this one.
</STRONG>
Top 20 character flaws of Jesus.

1. He invented hell (Actually he stole it from Persians and Greeks. No mention of hell in Old Testament or the writings of Paul. Further, hell is for anyone who commits the thought crime of not believing in Jesus – this sends Thomas Jefferson, Gandhi, the Dalai Lama and all the Jews who died in the holocaust straight to hell where God can torture them for eternity.)

2. He was racist (Mark 7:24-30 – he called non-Jews “dogs&#8221

3. He thought perfume for his body was more important than food for the hungry (this in an age when half of all children in Israel died of preventable causes by age 6)

4. He was an absolute pacifist (when will Bush implement the faith-based defense system advocated by the world’s greatest political philosopher?)

5. He was a hypocrite (He said that anyone who called someone a fool was in danger of hell, then later he called the Pharisees fools.)

6. He never laughed or smiled

7. He condoned slavery

8. He had nothing good to say about the value of democracy, education, art, science, medicine, free enterprise

9. He thought prayer could heal, instead of medicine.

10. He thought he was coming back in the lifetime of his hearers

11. He purposefully concealed his message to keep some people from believing in him

12. He taught that divorce was always wrong (even in cases of abuse)

13. He misquoted the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament)

14. He never repudiated all the cruelties committed by God in the Old Testament

15. He told people to gouge out their eyes and advocated self-castration

16. He told people to give anything to anyone who asked (Hey, Jerry Falwell, give me a million dollars.)

17. His prayers didn’t work (He prayed for unity among his followers, yet today there are 33,800 identifiable Christian denominations, each claiming to be the true church)

18. He said you must forgive anyone who does anything to you for an unlimited number of times as long as they ask for forgiveness (let’s apply this to our criminal justice system!)

19. He taught that his followers would never lack food, yet Christians in Ethiopia die of starvation every day

20. He taught that people should not save any money, but should give it all away and rely on God to provide (How about a faith-based economic plan - let’s do away with Social Security, banks and all forms of insurance!)
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Old 11-27-2001, 10:58 AM   #16
Vinnie
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Well, first I'd like to thenk everyone for their responses. I know it was a little time consuming. I will try to respond to various points later but first I am going to point out two mistakes in my post here. As ws pointed out "Christ" should have been Jesus Ben Joseph and number 8 should say "Are Science and the Bible contradictory." My bad *slips quiely into the crowd*

Alo, I want to answer my own questions before I go on to offering comments and asking questions concerning other viewpoints. So, here are my responses:

1. To you, what is the Christian faith? Sum it up, no more than 50 words please.

The Christian Faith is a marriage proposal. God created the world and somehow evil was introduced into the world and it is in a fallen state right now. God sent his Son to atone for the sins of the world and provide a means for salvation. The only way to be saved is through Jesus. God loves us and wants the best for us.

Well, that was like 63 words....

2. What do you feel is the strongest evidence that discredits the veracity of the Christian faith?

Well, this one is tough to answer because being a Christian, I don't think any evidence has fully discredited the veracity of the Xian faith. I'd say if Christianbity is to be based upon special revelation I think the book we use should have been a little clearer.

3. What do you dislike the most about Christianity?

The arrogant nature that pervades fundamentalist camps.
Lots of its history.
The vast diversity of views and opinions (Though I believe the fall explains them within the Christian framework).
The harshness of some preachers.

Note I do not find any of these problems inherant to Christianity itself. These all extend to the behavior of believers.

4. What do you like best about Christianity?
The fact that God was willing to suffer to reconcile myself to Him.

The teachings of Christ.
The teachings of selflessly doing things for others
Feeding the poor, healing the sick, helping others in anyway you can and most importantly that we are to LOVE EVERYONE. I like the idea of love a lot.
Lots of its histoty

5. List 5 qualities you like about Christianity. Please keep them brief.

See 4

6. List 5 qualities you dislike about Christianity. Please keep them brief.

See 3

7. What would you do if you found out God really existed and that He sent His Son Jesus to die for your sins? You also find out that you need to surrender your life and will to Him and ask him to forgive you of your sins. Would you?

Not applicable. Though if I found out God didn't exist I'd have to give up my faith. It wouldn't be easy though.

8. Are Christianity and the Bible mutually exclusive? Explain. List 5 examples if you can. Be brief.

Sheesh, this was supposed to say "are Science and the Bible".....

9. What are your three favorite Biblical contradictions?

I don't like them so any I can explain are my favorites

10. Is the Bible a good source of moral values? Why or why not?

It depends what you mean. Much of the OT seems inapplicable to me. I think for the purpose in which the law was given it was valid. I believe it replaced a more primitive ideaology but today, we've evolved beyond even that. I find many of the teachings of Chrit to be a good source of morals and I find much to agree with in the NT and yes, some of the stuff in the OT as well.

11. List 6 "good" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)

Love thy neighbor
Don't be hypocritical
Be slow to speek and quick to listen
Love your enemies.
Don't be judgemental.
Be gentle and respectful.

12. List 6 "bad" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)

Just check out stuff in the early OT books. Rape and slavery etc. I do believe these were just concessions to the sinfullness of man however just like divorce practices which was stated by Jesus..

13. List any character flaws you can think of concerning Jesus as presented in the Gospels. If you are a Christ-Myther you can still answer this one.

I think Jesus was a human being and had emotions like the rest of us. He also experienced life like a human. He got angry, had sexual urges, used the bathroom, scratched himself, probably had bad breath when waking up some mornings and smelled sometimes.

I think doctrinally, I find the story with the woman and calling her a "dog" to be my biggest concern concerning Jesus' character. I don't think what he did in the temple was all that bad and he didn't steal a colt!!!!

14. How much of the Bible have you read?

All of it and many sections many times.

15. Positive experiences with believers? List a few if you like.

Creation Fest was nice. Was with like 70,000 Christians. I also have some Xian friends. They help buil me up and stuff. For the most part my saty at ILJ has been a positive experience with believers especially in the Teen Scene and College Rage. A few people I know IRL stopped by and mentioned to me how caring the place was. Different from a lot of Christian boards.

16. Negative experience with believers? List a few if you like.

I've had a few negative expriences at ILJ as well. Mainly with arrogant and condemning over-literal superfundamentalists. My worst experience with a believer would have to be with my uncle. When he went to jail for selling drugs he converted in there. He read through the Bible and was praying everyday and when he came out, he seemed to have forgotten all about Jesus and went back to his old lifestyles. He's back in jail but it wasn't for selling drug this time. My fathr has converted in jail recently and when he gets out if he goes back to his old lifestyle I'll probably end up in jail for killing him.

17. How would you classify yourself? Solipsist, atheist (strong, weak), agnostic etc? Please provide a brief description.

Non-denominational and a slightly liberal Christian (I've changed recently).

18. What is the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear the word Apologetics?

Unfortunately, ignorance. But just wait till my site is up and running

19. Can Christians be open-minded?

Yes they can. All philosophies to an extent limit what those who hold them can believe. Can strong atheists be open-minded about miracles?

20. Was Christ a historical figure? Why or why not?

Yes, I believethere is good evidence supporting the historicity of Christ. Its also axiomatic to the unbiased historian IMO. Thats not meant to be an attack or character assasination.

21. If you said he was a historical figure then who do you think he really was before the Biblical authors took hold of him? Was he a teacher? Did he claim to be God? Did he die? Be brief.

This isn't really applicable but remember that Jesus is said to have taught for 3 years. The Bible is hardly filled with three years worth of stuff. I think He is said to have captivated his audiences for hours on end yet check out his longest speech in the bible. Its hardly that long.

22. Does a contradiction in the Bible discredit the entire thing? Does it discredit the Christian faith? Why or why not. Be brief.

No it doesn't. But I think a large number of errors presents problems and that certain ideaological errors can present problems.

23. Is abortion okay? Why or why not. Be brief.

I'm not sure. I don't know when a human is a human. I don't know when a soul is given. My thing is to be better safe than sorry. Why risk it? Better to stay away from the edge of a cliff than to see how far one can get without falling.

24. A concluding postscript. Here you can go on a 100 word rant on any subject you want pertaining to Christianity. This is optional.

Love ~n~
Deep affection and warm feeling for another. Unselfish and benevolent concern for the good of another.

Love is patient, love is kind, it does not boast, it does not envy, it does not get easily angered, it seeks to help, to build up, to strengthen. It isn't harsh or mean.

and all of 1 Corinthians 13
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Old 11-27-2001, 12:39 PM   #17
Mendeh
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1. To you, what is the Christian faith? Sum it up, no more than 50 words please.
A mixed bag. Has some really good ideas about moral and ethical behaviour (i.e. love thy neighbour, the parable of the man with the withered hand, etc.), but also has some pretty awful ideas as well (e.g. the immature attitude to homosexuality, the way that God acts in the old testament, condoning genocide etc.)

2. What do you feel is the strongest evidence that discredits the veracity of the Christian faith?
The profound lack of evidence for the existence of a god - any god, not necessarily the Christian one.

3. What do you dislike the most about Christianity?
The depraved way that its most fundamentalist adherants act - the intolerance and willful ignorance that they actually parade as virtues.

4. What do you like best about Christianity?
Love thy neighbour.

5. List 5 qualities you like about Christianity. Please keep them brief.
It's difficult to find qualities that are unique to Christianity. I value tolerance, compassion, altruism, searching for the truth, justice and mercy. These are all qualities that are present in the very best Christians, for sure. But these are all qualities that are present in the very best people, too. There's nothing unique to Christianity that I like especially.

6. List 5 qualities you dislike about Christianity. Please keep them brief.
Again, these are hardly unique to Christianity, but I dislike intolerance, injustice, greed, wilful ignorance, and hatred.

7. What would you do if you found out God really existed and that He sent His Son Jesus to die for your sins? You also find out that you need to surrender your life and will to Him and ask him to forgive you of your sins. Would you?
No. I would rather request the forgiveness of those that I had hurt by whatever harmful actions I had done, try to live a useful life, try to make the world a better place, try to search for truth myself, and help those around me. I would rather lead a good life, and be forgiven by those that I had hurt through my actions rather than the one person that I could not possibly have hurt - the Christian God, who is supposed to be omnipotent.

8. Are Christianity and the Bible mutually exclusive? Explain. List 5 examples if you can. Be brief.
I'm sure others will be better able to answer this.

9. What are your three favorite Biblical contradictions?
I don't spend my time looking for contradictions in the Bible, because it's obviously not 100% unadulterated God's word. It's not meant to be treated like a maths puzzle, it's meant to provide food for thought.

10. Is the Bible a good source of moral values? Why or why not?
Some of its values are good, some of them are not. 'Love thy neighbour' is profoundly good. 'Homosexuality is evil' is, to be blunt, an utterly twisted moral teaching.

11. List 6 "good" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)
- Love thy neighbour
- Failure to help those in need is wrong (Good Samaritan, Withered Hand)
- Don't hate.
- Test all things, and hold fast to what proves itself true.
- Stick up for your beliefs.
- Don't do good just for your own benefit.

12. List 6 "bad" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)
- Genocide is fine.
- Stoning people for adultery is fine.
- Homosexuality is wrong.
- It's fine for God to kill everything in the world save for a handful (the flood myth)
- Man is a sinful creature worthy only of everlasting hellfire
- God requires the sacrifice of blood in order to be appeased.

13. List any character flaws you can think of concerning Jesus as presented in the Gospels. If you are a Christ-Myther you can still answer this one.
Been answered by many.

14. How much of the Bible have you read?
Probably about 1/10.

15. Positive experiences with believers? List a few if you like.
Yes. My Dad's a practicing Christian, and he's one of the best people that I know. The Anglican Vicar and Curate in my parish are very nice people as well, as are any number of other Christians that I've met.

16. Negative experience with believers? List a few if you like.
Loads. One sticks in my mind.
One of my friends was told by his parents that the universe was about 10,000 years old, that the Bible was completely true and that if he didn't follow everything that his crackpot church said, he'd burn in hell everlastingly. He got sent to various holiday camps to get brainwashed, and when he found out exactly how ridiculous his parents' views were, he lost a lot of his love for them. Thankfully, he's a little less credulous now, and is getting out of it.

17. How would you classify yourself? Solipsist, atheist (strong, weak), agnostic etc? Please provide a brief description.
Weak atheist. I've lack any belief in deities, because so far I haven't seen any good evidence that any exist.

18. What is the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear the word Apologetics?
"Oh, for goodness sake, not AGAIN!"

19. Can Christians be open-minded?
Yeah, sure.

20. Was Christ a historical figure? Why or why not?
I'd say the likelihood of there being a historical Jesus was pretty high.

21. If you said he was a historical figure then who do you think he really was before the Biblical authors took hold of him? Was he a teacher? Did he claim to be God? Did he die? Be brief.
Oh, probably a guru, had a band of followers, gained quite a bit of popularity, and got removed by the authorities because he preached 'dangerous' ideas.

22. Does a contradiction in the Bible discredit the entire thing? Does it discredit the Christian faith? Why or why not. Be brief.
No, don't be silly. It's bloody obvious that the Bible can't be 100% accurate, and few Christians today say that it is.

23. Is abortion okay? Why or why not. Be brief.
Yes, as long as it is fairly early on in the pregnancy, so the foetus will not be very aware, if aware at all.

24. A concluding postscript. Here you can go on a 100 word rant on any subject you want pertaining to Christianity. This is optional.

I'd rather not.
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Old 11-27-2001, 01:05 PM   #18
GunnerJ
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1. To you, what is the Christian faith? Sum it up, no more than 50 words please
A bizzare first-century fertility/doomsday cult that branched off from Judaism. It changed and re-wrote it's tenants and invented a mythology about it's supposed founder in order to gain the support of the masses and to influence powerful people. It became a political power in the Roman empire, wiped out all competing cults, and held one of the most barbarous and cruel tyrannies over Western human thought formore than a thousand years. It has inspired some of the greatest workd of humanities, and also the most disgusting atrocities against it. It's power, which should have ended about 1700 years ago, is thankfully dwindling. We can hopefully expect that people will shrug off it's fetters and humanity will enter a post-Christian era in a few hundred years.

Quote:
2. What do you feel is the strongest evidence that discredits the veracity of the Christian faith?
Perhaps the fact that it is completely unsupported by evidence. Also, its supposed founder predicted his own return in the lives of his followers.

Quote:
3. What do you dislike the most about Christianity?
The absurd way it is offhandly treated as a normal and moral thing.

Quote:
4. What do you like best about Christianity?
The fact that its power is fading.

I don't feel like answering the next two. I'm a busy man.

Quote:
7. What would you do if you found out God really existed and that He sent His Son Jesus to die for your sins? You also find out that you need to surrender your life and will to Him and ask him to forgive you of your sins. Would you?
If I factually found out that all of Xian dogma was true, I would have more than a few questions to ask this God fellow before I could logically accept the contradictory nature of it.

Quote:
8. Are Christianity and the Bible mutually exclusive? Explain. List 5 examples if you can. Be brief.
Five examples is not brief. Xian dogma is in many places completely out of sync with the Bible. I.e., the omnipotence of God, the omniscience of God, free will (which contradicts the Bible and omnicience), God's benevolence, God hating and not producing evil (not even the Bible can agree on this.)

I don't have time for the next one. I prefer to show how the Bible contradicts reality.

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10. Is the Bible a good source of moral values? Why or why not?
In the midst of bizzare dietary and sacrificial laws, condemnations of homosexuality and other religions, a weak and unjust treatment of rape, it's constant use of genocide as an acceptable moral tool, and much, much more, there is "love thy neighbor as thy self." Truly a strange "moral" code.

I'm not listing anything.

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13. List any character flaws you can think of concerning Jesus as presented in the Gospels. If you are a Christ-Myther you can still answer this one.
There wasn't enough of a "character" presented for Jesus; just constant mention of miracles and preaching. One wonders why we know little of him from year five to year thirty-three. A rotten teenager and a ne'er-do-well twenty-something life?

I don't have time to answer any more.
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Old 11-27-2001, 01:43 PM   #19
hezekiah jones
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Originally posted by ilgwamh:
18. What is the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear the word Apologetics?
Someone has an awful lot to apologize for.
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Old 11-27-2001, 02:56 PM   #20
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What the hell, I'm bored.

1. To you, what is the Christian faith? Sum it up, no more than 50 words please.

Wishful thinking.

2. What do you feel is the strongest evidence that discredits the veracity of the Christian faith?

Scientific fact.

3. What do you dislike the most about Christianity?

The intolerance, the hypocrisy. Oppression of women.

4. What do you like best about Christianity?

Some Christians are actually very loving, peaceful and tolerant.

5. List 5 qualities you like about Christianity. Please keep them brief.

Certain aspects of it promotes peace and love.

6. List 5 qualities you dislike about Christianity. Please keep them brief.

It also promotes intolerance and closemindedness and wins believers through fear.

7. What would you do if you found out God really existed and that He sent His Son Jesus to die for your sins? You also find out that you need to surrender your life and will to Him and ask him to forgive you of your sins. Would you?

No, atleast not the God depicted in the Bible, because he seems to be an asshole, quite frankly.

8. Are Christianity and the Bible mutually exclusive? Explain. List 5 examples if you can. Be brief.

Consult someone smarter and not as lazy.

9. What are your three favorite Biblical contradictions?

I haven't really gotten into this.

10. Is the Bible a good source of moral values? Why or why not?

Yes and no. It's contains both moral and very immoral messages in its pages.

11. List 6 "good" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)

Don't resort to violence, don't kill, don't commit adultery, don't steal, lie, etc.

12. List 6 "bad" morals taught in the Bible. (Please don't exceed 6)

Be intolerant of seperate religions & beliefs, hate homosexuals, treat women as objects, "stone disobediant children"

13. List any character flaws you can think of concerning Jesus as presented in the Gospels. If you are a Christ-Myther you can still answer this one.

He brought not peace, but a sword.

14. How much of the Bible have you read?

A good portion of it, but I do admit, it bores me to death.

15. Positive experiences with believers? List a few if you like.

Many of my closest friends are Christians.

16. Negative experience with believers? List a few if you like.

I go to a Christian school and am surrounded by Christian teenagers each day. Needless to say, I hear a lot of ignorant, mean, prejudiced things from them and occasionally from the teachers. (A few days after 9/11, my English teacher stated she was so sad that so many people were burning in hell)

17. How would you classify yourself? Solipsist, atheist (strong, weak), agnostic etc? Please provide a brief description.

Agnostic atheist. I don't believe in god, but I won't know for sure until I'm dead. Even then I might have doubts.

18. What is the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear the word Apologetics?

Christiananswers.net.

19. Can Christians be open-minded?

Yes, I do believe so.

20. Was Christ a historical figure? Why or why not?

Yeah, albeit a nonexistent one.

21. If you said he was a historical figure then who do you think he really was before the Biblical authors took hold of him? Was he a teacher? Did he claim to be God? Did he die? Be brief.

See above.

22. Does a contradiction in the Bible discredit the entire thing? Does it discredit the Christian faith? Why or why not. Be brief.

It discredits the supposed "inerrancy" of the Bible, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it discredits Christianity as a whole.

23. Is abortion okay? Why or why not. Be brief.

It's the woman's choice. I believe it's okay under most circumstances.

[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Pirate Smoker ]
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