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Old 11-06-2001, 05:46 PM   #1
KeithHarwood
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Question Pontius Pilate, the later years.

I'm under the impresion that PP vanished from history shortly after his return from Judea. My wife is of the opinion that his records are still around and mention the Jesus trial.

So, what happened when he returned to Rome and did he write it up?
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Old 11-06-2001, 07:47 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally posted by KeithHarwood:
<STRONG>I'm under the impresion that PP vanished from history shortly after his return from Judea. My wife is of the opinion that his records are still around and mention the Jesus trial.

So, what happened when he returned to Rome and did he write it up?</STRONG>
Your wife is right. PP became the rational side of the Catholic Church. He was the ruler of the conscious mind as juxtaposed with Herod who was the ruler of the subconscious mind. Be reminded here that they were happy to meet each other in the end (Lk.23:12) while heretofore they were at war with each other. This would have to be the case or heaven would be redundant. In other words, it is in this world that we must come to salvation and tharefore "this world" will always be presented by the rational side of the CC to justify it position as Infallible.

Maybe this is not the answer you expected but that is how I see it.

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Old 11-06-2001, 08:17 PM   #3
cloudyphiz
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Quote:
Maybe this is not the answer you expected
that's probably one way of putting it...
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Old 11-06-2001, 08:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by cloudyphiz:
<STRONG>

that's probably one way of putting it...</STRONG>
LOL
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Old 11-06-2001, 09:04 PM   #5
KeithHarwood
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
<STRONG>

Maybe this is not the answer you expected but that is how I see it.

Amos</STRONG>
I was actually looking for concrete information about the historical person, not imaginative allegories about the Church and its Children.

IIRC, Herod the Great died long before PP came to Judea. Herod Agrippa would have known PP in Rome and could very well have been good friends for years. I can't recall where Herod Antipas was at the time.
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Old 11-06-2001, 11:11 PM   #6
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Pilate was eventually recalled to Rome, due to his, uh, excessive use of force in the area. Catholic tradition has him hanging himself much later in life.


as for the records of Pilate and Jesus Trial, if any existed, there were completely obliterated during Vespians razing of the city in 70 A.D.
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Old 11-07-2001, 04:34 AM   #7
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It would certainly be true that Pontius Pilate's memoirs would be very interesting documents.

However, the only surviving examples of purportedly PP-written documents are generally considered gross forgeries.

And on the subject of the trial of JC, that's generally considered a very unusual sort of trial; it has been proposed to be a (fictional) way of getting him crucified while blaming the Jewish authorities and simultaneously letting the Roman ones off the hook. This is because crucifixion was a Roman, not a Jewish form of punishment. Which suggests two much more reasonable possibilities:

The Jewish authorities stoned JC to death, and the Roman authorities either approved, looked the other way, or didn't care.

Pontius Pilate wasn't dragged into executing JC, but instead took plenty of initiative.

Finally, "His blood be upon us and all our children" (Matthew) is not what a typical lynch mob would say.
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Old 11-07-2001, 09:40 AM   #8
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Here's a page I found on Pilate

According to the Catholic Encyclopaedia, all we have on his later life is that Eusebius mentions that he fell into misfortune under Caligula and comitted suicide. However, Eusebius wrote in the early 4th century IIRC, and does not name his source, so this may not be reliable.

There are a few alleged letters or memoirs of Pilate around, eg The Letter of Pilate to Tiberius, but none are thought to be genuine.

[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: Pantera ]
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Old 11-07-2001, 10:04 AM   #9
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According to the traditional account of his life, Pilate was a Roman equestrian (knight) of the Samnite clan of the Pontii (hence his name Pontius). He was appointed prefect of Judaea through the intervention of Sejanus, a favourite of the Roman emperor Tiberius. Protected by Sejanus, he incurred the enmity of the Jews by insulting their religious sensibilities, as when he hung worship images of the Emperor throughout Jerusalem and had coins bearing pagan religious symbols minted. After Sejanus' fall (AD 31), Pilate was exposed to sharper criticism from the Jews, who may have capitalized on his vulnerability by obtaining a legal death sentence on Jesus (John 19:12). The Samaritans reported him to Vitellius, legate of Syria, after he had attacked them on Mt. Gerizim (AD 36). He was then ordered back to Rome to stand trial for cruelty and oppression, particularly on the charge that he executed men without proper trial. According to an uncertain 4th-century tradition, Pilate killed himself on orders from Emperor Caligula in AD 39.

Judgments of the man himself must be made inferentially, almost entirely on the basis of later Jewish and Christian writings, chiefly Josephus and the New Testament. Josephus' references appear to be consistent. They seem to picture a strong-willed, strict, authoritarian Roman leader who was, nevertheless, both rational and practical and who knew how far he should go in a given case. For example, Josephus tells us that "in order to abolish Jewish laws," and with the intent of diminishing privileges Jews had hitherto enjoyed, Pilate ordered his troops to encamp in Jerusalem and sent them into the city with images of the emperor attached to their ensigns. When the Jews demonstrated in Caesarea, Pilate's city of residence, he threatened them with death unless they desisted; but when the Jews showed their readiness to die, he ordered the images removed. Josephus states his inferential judgment that Pilate "was deeply affected with their firm resolution," suggesting his own strength of character.

The New Testament, however, suggests a weak, vacillating personality. Would the mob be just as happy if he released Jesus instead of Barabbas on the feast day (Mark 15:6 ff.)? Pilate weakly capitulates. His wife sends him word of her dream (Matt. 27:19), and Pilate abdicates his responsibility to the emperor. In the Fourth Gospel, Pilate is depicted as having accepted the Christian interpretation of the meaning of Jesus (John 19:7-11), and he rejects the Jews' reminder that Jesus has merely said that he is "the king of the Jews" (19:21). Clearly, as an index to the character and personality of Pilate, the New Testament is devastating. But it is preoccupied with concerns of the nascent Christian communities, increasingly making their way among the Gentiles and anxious to avoid giving offense to Roman authorities. Eventually, in Christian tradition, Pilate and his wife became converts, and the latter is a saint in the Eastern Church.


Copyright 1994 EB
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Old 11-07-2001, 05:28 PM   #10
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Thanks very much for the info, folks. The relationship to Sejanus was new to me, but it confirmed what I thought.
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