FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Biblical Criticism - 2001
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 05:55 AM

Notices

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-21-2000, 07:39 AM   #1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post We are the product of Cain

For those of you compiling arguements against Xians, particularly young earthers, and bible literalists, it is always fun to point out that we are the product of Cain. Able was the good one, living the good life, he was the favorite of God and Adam. Cain killed him, and Cain's way of life continues today. Our whole earth is the product of the guy god thought was living wrong.

This is a synopsis of one argument from a splendid novel by Dan Quinn. "Ishmael" He points out that the Cain and Able story is a metaphor for two ways of life. Those who leave the earth the way it is, hunter gatherers and shepherds(Able), and those who bend the earth to their will, agriculturists(Cain). We are certainly a culture who bends the earth to its own will. Congratulations christians, your own book says you are the product of the bad guy.
 
Old 12-21-2000, 09:43 AM   #2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Take a little more time to research before you throw out claims like that.

1. Where did Cain get his wife?
(implies pre-adamite man hence a line not descended from Adam at all)

2. Adam and Eve had other sons, so it is possible some people are not descended from Cain at all (assuming the mythology of the Bible actually happened).



[This message has been edited by karlydee (edited December 21, 2000).]
 
Old 12-21-2000, 10:30 AM   #3
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Screw research, what does researching fiction do for you? First of all, the people who would be bothered by this argument cannot explain where Cain's wife came from, and since there would have to be very few people on earth at the time near creation, it would be impossible for anyone not to have cain for an ancestor since the original pool would be so small. Or do you not believe the creation story, if that is the case, this argument was not for you.

Karlydee, you don't address the metaphor portion at all. Our culture is exactly like cain. The point of the story is that those who live like Able, none of us or nearly none, are beloved by god. We all live like Cain.

[This message has been edited by dangin (edited December 21, 2000).]
 
Old 12-21-2000, 11:16 AM   #4
DougI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Wichita, KS, USA
Posts: 932
Post

I don't know this Cain so I doubt he could have been much of an influence on me. Perhaps you shouldn't generalize from your own experiences.
DougI is offline  
Old 12-21-2000, 11:32 AM   #5
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

DougI

This is not my experience, and you are being purposefully obtuse. The metaphor of the Cain and Able story can be said to describe the battle between those who lived within the world as animals do(hunter gatherers), and those who change the world, plow fields, destroy competition, and build cities. We, in western culture, do not live as the native americans did, nor as the aboriginees, nor as any indigineous peoples. Our society is the equivalent of Cain's behavior that displeased God. If you want to understand this further, I suggest you read the book I cited as the source of this argument, and many others. Free thinkers should all appreciate what it has to say.
 
Old 12-21-2000, 12:15 PM   #6
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Since Adam and Eve had just been created, they were free from harmful mutations so incest wasn't a problem and you can bet that any daughter of Eve was not hard to look at.

Also keep in mind that Adam lived many hundreds of years. With a child every two years, Cain could have had a few hundred to pick from.
 
Old 12-21-2000, 01:50 PM   #7
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Arrow

Uh, as I read it, all the descendents of Cain died in the Flood. Look more closely.

Quote:
Originally posted by karlydee:
2. Adam and Eve had other sons, so it is possible some people are not descended from Cain at all (assuming the mythology of the Bible actually happened).
Granted that assumption, you will observe that a third son is indeed named: Seth. He is the progenitor of the line that leads to Noah. Because of the Flood bottleneck, Noah therefore becomes the new father of humanity. No Cain-folk allowed.

I use this little detail for Aryan-type yahoos who claim that "inferior" races are the spawn of Cain.
 
Old 12-21-2000, 02:37 PM   #8
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Good one grumpy, we can always count on the flood to skew things one way or the other.

Does anyone see the metaphor though. Daniel Quinn argues that the whole cain/able fable is actually something that the judeo/christians stole from the culture they replaced. The replaced culture (metaphoricly Able) being the hunter gatherers who lived within the natural system of earth, without changing it, or putting up fences, etc. etc. This is the culture that would tell a story about Cain's way of life being wrong. Why would the people who live cain's way of life, us and all our ancestors, say that way of life is wrong?
The story is told from the point of view that cain, and his way of life is the wrong one. Seth, through Noah replaces Cain, but Seth and his lot(us if you wish to believe that) simply continue Cain's lifestyle. This is what god and Adam had a problem with, not Cain himself. This implies that our entire culture, the culture started by Cain, maintained by Seth, and still active today is the one that god did not approve of. Does anyone else see this?
 
Old 12-21-2000, 04:17 PM   #9
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Hmmmm, almost.

What about Noah's wife? Was she also a descendant of Seth?
 
Old 12-21-2000, 05:07 PM   #10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Smile

What about Noah's wife? Was she also a descendant of Seth? Yes.

And when they say there were giants in the earth in those days, were they referring to neanderthals? they were allways fighting giants of some kind or another.
 
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:16 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.