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Old 12-06-2001, 04:49 AM   #31
big d
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When Did the Flood Occur?
I Kings 6:1 says that 480 years passed from the start of the Exodus to the start of construction on the first temple by Solomon. Gal 3:17 says that 430 years passed from the covenant with Abraham to the delivery of the Law to Moses. Yahweh establishes the covenant with Abram about 135 years after he was born (11:32, 26). Abram was born when Terah was 70 (11:26). Terah was born when Nahor was 29 (11:24). Nahor was born when Serug was 30 (11:22). Serug was born when Re'u was 30 (11:20). Re'u was born when Peleg was 30 (11:18). Peleg was born when Eber is 34 (11:16). Eber was born when Shelah was 30 (11:14). Shelah was born from a 35 year-old Arpach'shad (11:12). Arpach'shad was born from Shem 2 years after the flood (11:10).
Since the date of Solomon's reign is agreed to be about 950[+/- 50]BCE, we can calculate the time of the flood using this chronology. Starting with Solomon and working backward, we have:
950BCE +480 +430 +135 +70 +29 +30 +30 +30 +34 +30 +35 +2= 2285BCE.
China and Egypt have unboken civilizations that extend back past 3500 BCE. The Bible is therefore errant.
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Old 12-09-2001, 09:54 AM   #32
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Lets not forget that to have a flood of such proportions the other civilizations living on the Earth at the time must have been wrong.
They weren't really there.
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Old 12-09-2001, 02:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by emc2:
<strong>

Can anyone present a possible explanation? This has gone uncontested for nearly a month.</strong>
Very easy emc2.

First, let's be clear that the bible does not say, or, should not say, "one pair of each" but rather "one of each" and then it may identify "one male and one female."

The reason for this is that the flood makes reference to the state of mind in which we are "beyond theology" and therefore cannot add or subtract but can only identify differences (our subconscious mind cannot add)

The flood is a parable and that is all it is. In this parable the building of the ark is the time spend on self reflection (tithing with time instead of money) because the time may come that this soul awareness will have to carry us trough a fourty day period of severe melancholia. The ark we built is this vessel of understanding and the animals we stuff in there is all the data we have in our conscious mind. This is needed to get to the other side if sanity is to prevail on the other side.

In the following poem "unstructured space" makes reference to our conscious mind is this melancholic period of life. This means that already when we are young we must prepare "religiously" for this period of life because we cannot rationally do this because our faculty of reason will fail us then.

"If he had known
unstructured space is a deluge,
and stocked his life-houseboat
with all of the animals
even the wolves . . .
he might have floated.

But obstinate he stated:
the land is solid . . .
and stamped,
wathing his foot go down through stone
up to the knee.

This now means that religion has a purpose in life and that in this sense we are all ark builders . . . or we are not ark builders.

Of course there is a benefit to get to survive the flood becuase it was "god send."

Amos
 
Old 12-09-2001, 06:28 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
<strong>

Very easy emc2.


The flood is a parable and that is all it is.

Amos</strong>

Where do you get your information? Every religious person I speak with insists that that event happened exactly as stated, but none can answer my question with the exceptions of the usual Goddidit answers, and I guess this new parable answer. BTW- one of each is still a pair. I didn't understand what you were trying to point out there.


To those that truly believe that this event happened EXACTLY as the Bible states, can you provide an explanation in your defense? Please read my previous posts if your just tuning in- I'm getting tired of typing the same thing over and over.
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Old 12-09-2001, 06:52 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by emc2:
<strong>


Where do you get your information? Every religious person I speak with insists that that event happened exactly as stated, but none can answer my question with the exceptions of the usual Goddidit answers, and I guess this new parable answer. BTW- one of each is still a pair. I didn't understand what you were trying to point out there.


To those that truly believe that this event happened EXACTLY as the Bible states, can you provide an explanation in your defense? Please read my previous posts if your just tuning in- I'm getting tired of typing the same thing over and over.</strong>
This new parable is old. The flood parable was popular in those days and if it was to be taken literally there should be several arks over there in the mountains someplace.

True, one of each is a pair but the subconscious mind can not "load the ark" in pairs of two because it does not have the capacity to add (1+1=2).

You do not believe my parable explantion.

Amos
 
Old 12-09-2001, 11:15 PM   #36
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Respectfully, I don't understand the fuss about Noah's story. The story comes out of a book of lies concocted by ancient frauds with as sole purpose, control of the masses. During the ages, this has then further be translated and doctored for the same purpose, and unfortunately with success.
Any religion believing in afterlife is dangerous and potentially suversive. It also can lead to suicides by testosteros filed young man mistakingly believing they ill have the use of virgins in this imaginary afterlife.
All three Abrahamic religions should be prohibited by law and illigal followers prosecuted. They are no better or less dangerous than those believing in the "mothership". Look at history. Their cruel and jealous god has wrecked avoc over the centuries. These religions have also all the time been hijacked by vested powers for their own purposes and are therfore guilty like hell. Talking about Noah's story is like talking about only a sideline of a much larger drama. Let's get rid of them all, inclusive Noah's story and let's instead concentrate on making life on earth better!!!
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Old 12-10-2001, 12:39 AM   #37
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Amos:
<strong>

This new parable is old.

</strong>
Sorry I wasn't more specific. I meant new to me. This is the first time someone explained this story in that fashion. I have always been told by anyone I argued this issue with that it happened the way the Bible said. No one has ever mentioned to me about this story being a parable.

<strong>
True, one of each is a pair but the subconscious mind can not "load the ark" in pairs of two because it does not have the capacity to add (1+1=2).
</strong>
What in the world are you trying to say here? A pair by ANY definition is two. What does the subconcious mind have to do with anything?

<strong>
You do not believe my parable explantion.
</strong>
I believe that anything that cannot be logically explained suddenly becomes a parable. A parable is a fictitious story. I feel that the Bible is full of fictitious stories. This one, however, I feel has a bit af realism to it. I do believe that there is SOME history in the Bible. I don't find it unreasonable that a man built a large boat and put SOME animals in it. My issue is with the math as explained numerous times above.

You claim parable, where is the moral punchline that normally accompanies parables? You are correct. I don't buy it, but thanks for your input, even though it doesn't come close to answering my original question.
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Old 12-10-2001, 12:50 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by emc2:

Here a quote from my original post, which has still gone unanswered. If you believe the Bible (and this story for truth), then please present to me an explanation for the mathematics of my question. Please read the entire thread before responding as not to duplicate the other explanations which all avoided my question.

<strong>The ark was 515 ft long, 50 ft wide, and 80 ft tall. This is based on the biblical measurements of cubits converted. There is no way possible that a pair of every animal in the entire world could fit in a boat that small. Various religions deny the possibility of evolution. Taking that into count, a pair of every animal that exist today would have to have been on that boat (and then that doesn't account for the food issues).

I just don't buy it. A boat samller than two football feilds carrying at least one pair (I think we all know the Bible is a little confusing on the numbers there, but we'll use one pair for simplicity) of every animal that exists? I do believe there was an ark, I do believe there was a flood. I do believe there were animals on it. As far as that story goes, that's pretty much it. I believe the Bible to a historic document with lots of holes/questions/contradictions. But hey, after all - it was still written by humans, and you can just about find as many holes/questions/contradictions in todays history books.</strong>
Any takers? I'm starting to feel like I'm beating that darn horse again.
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Old 12-10-2001, 07:04 AM   #39
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[quote]Originally posted by emc2:
<strong>
Quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
[qb]

This new parable is old.

</strong>
Sorry I wasn't more specific. I meant new to me. This is the first time someone explained this story in that fashion. I have always been told by anyone I argued this issue with that it happened the way the Bible said. No one has ever mentioned to me about this story being a parable.

<strong>
True, one of each is a pair but the subconscious mind can not "load the ark" in pairs of two because it does not have the capacity to add (1+1=2).
</strong>
What in the world are you trying to say here? A pair by ANY definition is two. What does the subconcious mind have to do with anything?

<strong>
You do not believe my parable explantion.
</strong>
I believe that anything that cannot be logically explained suddenly becomes a parable. A parable is a fictitious story. I feel that the Bible is full of fictitious stories. This one, however, I feel has a bit af realism to it. I do believe that there is SOME history in the Bible. I don't find it unreasonable that a man built a large boat and put SOME animals in it. My issue is with the math as explained numerous times above.

You claim parable, where is the moral punchline that normally accompanies parables? You are correct. I don't buy it, but thanks for your input, even though it doesn't come close to answering my original question.[/QB]
The ark is the subconscious mind and since it does not have the capacity to count to two it takes one of each. Since a male is different from a female the ark would be loaded in pairs from our perpective only.

A parable is not fictitiuos but real in an allegorical way. I find it unreasonable that a man would built a boat to save the entire world from a flood unless it was allegory.

Amos
 
Old 12-10-2001, 08:37 AM   #40
Muad'Dib
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Quote:
Originally posted by emc2:
<strong>Any takers? I'm starting to feel like I'm beating that darn horse again.</strong>
I think you'll have better luck if you monitor the E/C forum for new YECs; that's where they tend to spend most of their time. Anyone who's tried to defend Noah's Ark has disappeared after a while, though, so don't get your hopes up too high.
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