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Old 08-16-2001, 10:09 AM   #21
Rich
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For one explanation of the Lazarus parable read this: LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN
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Old 08-16-2001, 12:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amos123:
<STRONG>

Hello daina, the entire bible is metaphor or allegory except for two passages and here it is made clear that it is not metaphor nor allegory but real as in tangible or taste it and see for yourself. They are found in Jn.6:55 "My fesh is real food and my blood is real drink."

This also means that anyone who cannot see this or taste it is not a Christian as is made known in verse 56: "The man who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him."

Amos</STRONG>
Christians are sick people. Cannibals.
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Old 08-16-2001, 03:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sergey:
<STRONG>

Christians are sick people. Cannibals.</STRONG>
Sergey, the fruit of the vine is the body and blood of Christ. We, as Christians recognize that we must consume our equals to stay alive in a compettitive biological environment and for this we apologize in advance. You, perhaps do not see it this way.

Amos
 
Old 08-16-2001, 08:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amos123:
<STRONG>

Sergey, the fruit of the vine is the body and blood of Christ. We, as Christians recognize that we must consume our equals to stay alive in a compettitive biological environment and for this we apologize in advance. You, perhaps do not see it this way.

Amos</STRONG>
Why don't you just eat me too? More importantly, why don't you eat my ass.

P.S. That's some morality you have. I thought the moral thing would be to preserve your own kind, not eat it.
P.P.S. Jesus is your equal?

(edited for rudeness)

[ August 16, 2001: Message edited by: Sergey ]
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Old 08-16-2001, 08:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rich:
<STRONG>For one explanation of the Lazarus parable read this: LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN</STRONG>
I actually went and read this article. Here's the conclusion: <STRONG>The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream ministers to teach the reality of "hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife. Christ used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which led them to reject him as the Messiah. They still suffer from that fate to this very day. Yet the time is soon coming when God will pour on the Jews the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Christ whom they pierced, and they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn (Zec. 12:10).</STRONG>

You will learn that the real key to understanding the parable is the fact that the rich man had 5 brothers. Of course! Why didn't I see that! The author proclaims that the basic meaning has been missed by scholars for centuries. He misses the irony of a God who communicated a "saving message" which is so difficult to understand that it has misled the brightest and most committed followers he has had for centuries.

Among the other brilliant insights: it must be a parable because the rich man goes to hell just for being rich and Lazarus goes to heaven just for being poor. This is different from what other passages teach so it can't mean what it says! That's Christian reasoning at its finest. Any contradiction is explained away as impossible since there are no contradictions. It never occurs to this author that Luke consistently portrays Jesus as saying the rich will suffer in the kingdom and the poor will prosper - for no reason other than their financial condition in this life. For example, see Luke 6:20 and 24. While you're there, notice all the contradictions with Matthew 5:3.
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Old 08-16-2001, 09:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sergey:
<STRONG>

P.S. That's some morality you have. I thought the moral thing would be to preserve your own kind, not eat it.
P.P.S. Jesus is your equal?

(edited for rudeness)

[ August 16, 2001: Message edited by: Sergey ]</STRONG>
To preserve your own kind is the conservative perspective which is precisely how you lose it. If this was not true mythologies would be redundant.

Jesus is my brother and the fruit of the vine is my equal.

Amos
 
Old 08-16-2001, 09:33 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amos123:
<STRONG>

To preserve your own kind is the conservative perspective which is precisely how you lose it. If this was not true mythologies would be redundant.

Jesus is my brother and the fruit of the vine is my equal.

Amos</STRONG>

So, can I drink your blood, Amos?
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Old 08-16-2001, 09:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by ex-preacher:
<STRONG>

I actually went and read this article. Here's the conclusion: [qb]The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream ministers to teach the reality of "hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife. Christ used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which led them to reject him as the Messiah. They still suffer from that fate to this very day. Yet the time is soon coming when God will pour on the Jews the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Christ whom they pierced, and they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn (Zec. 12:10).</STRONG>

You will learn that the real key to understanding the parable is the fact that the rich man had 5 brothers. Of course! Why didn't I see that! The author proclaims that the basic meaning has been missed by scholars for centuries. He misses the irony of a God who communicated a "saving message" which is so difficult to understand that it has misled the brightest and most committed followers he has had for centuries.

Among the other brilliant insights: it must be a parable because the rich man goes to hell just for being rich and Lazarus goes to heaven just for being poor. This is different from what other passages teach so it can't mean what it says! That's Christian reasoning at its finest. Any contradiction is explained away as impossible since there are no contradictions. It never occurs to this author that Luke consistently portrays Jesus as saying the rich will suffer in the kingdom and the poor will prosper - for no reason other than their financial condition in this life. For example, see Luke 6:20 and 24. While you're there, notice all the contradictions with Matthew 5:3.[/QB]
The Rich Man and Lazarus according to my Catholic interpretation.

Notice that the rich mam was dressed in purple and linnen while feasting every day. The color purple and the linnen indicate that he was publicly looking for the reign of God. Purple is the color of advent and advent is symbolic for involutional melancholy, which is a prolonged period of doom and gloom that precedes rebirth (Christ was born midwinter, midnight and midlife). His feasting makes reference to scripture reading and so the rich man was quite learned about the reign of God for which he was known and hence the beggar at his gate waiting for passages dismissed as meaningless scraps by the rich man.

Lazarus was a beggar who was earnestly looking for the reign of God and his sores indicate this. Lazarus longed to eat from the rich man's table because the rich man discarded the good passages as if they were dogs and yes these dogs were like ointment to the spiritual cravings of Lazarus. His wounds, of course, were not physical wounds but idications that Lazarus was ripe and ready to receive the word of God which is the reality behind the color purple.

Both died a similar death which is not physical. The Rich man became burried in his sin nature while Lazarus crossed the great divide and went on into the New Jerusalem.

The point here is that bible rich pharisees will not enter the kingdom while a few scriptures handed down can be most effective. This is the reason why Catholics are not encouraged the study the bible but are given a few scriptures every week during mass that will serve them like ointment if the need is there.

Amos
 
Old 08-16-2001, 09:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sergey:
<STRONG>


So, can I drink your blood, Amos?</STRONG>
You just told the rest of the world that you are an idiot.

Amos
 
Old 08-16-2001, 10:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by ex-preacher:
... That's Christian reasoning at its finest. Any contradiction is explained away as impossible since there are no contradictions. ....
Christianity has had approx. 2000 years to get its act together, to explain away "apparent contradictions," to make "difficult Bible passages" more palatable, etc., etc. The wonder is not that there are so few problems remaining to be addressed, but rather that there are still so many.

Of course, "God's Holy Spirit" is allegedly the ultimate guide (in spite of what many Catholics may think about the Pope), yet even "He" can't seem to set the record straight given that sincere believers who pray for the guidance of the H.S. too often arrive at different and mutually-exclusive understandings of "difficult Bible passages."

--Don--
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