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Old 11-23-2001, 12:57 AM   #1
uncle_onion
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Post Can you understand this reasoning?

Hi
I had a look at the site mentioned on another thread that Says it had the Biblical answer for Everything! ...www.abundantbible.org so I posed them a question. He is the dialogue:


Saw your site. You wrote : 8. There would be an increase in earthquakes-Mt 24:2,3,7; Mk 13:8; Lk 21:11. This prophecy is correct. That’s 8 out of 8.
Note: Research from the U.S. Geological Survey, National Earthquake Information Center reveals that in 1986, the total number of earthquakes was 12,718. In 1990, it was 16,612. In 1994, it was 19,371. This will culminate during the Battle of Armageddon, AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS. At that time, there will be an earthquake that will shake the world. The cities of the nations will fall.

I have contacted the above and they stated that earthquakes have not increased?


Uncle onion

They wrote back:


Thank you for visiting our site. May we suggest that before you accuse someone of publishing false information (lying) that you do a little better research and don't rely on what other people tell you. Do your own research!


Attached to this email is a word document with the statistical charts right off of the Governments website. Look for your self. I have highlighted in red the yearly totals. You may search out the information from their website to verify the charts at the following URL: http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/eqlists/eqstats.html


If they are not increasing then please tell us, exactly what it is you think they are doing?


Thank you


************************************************** ****************************

I wrote back:

I Contacted them a year ago and they told me categorically that Earthquakes are NOT increasing. Ask them yourself and they will tell you (as they told me) that because we have more detection equipment now we recognise more earthquakes. I suggest that you do your own research and ask their opinions of their research and not form your own opinions.


Uncle onion


Them:

-----Original Message-----
From: ineedjesus@worldnet.att.net [mailto: ineedjesus@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: 16 November 2001 22:40
To: uncle_onion@ntlworld.com
Subject: Re: question


That's rather peculiar reasoning. If they have more detection equipment and are detecting more earthquakes. Then it would stand to reason that had they possessed the same eauipment during previous years, then those numbers would also be higher. So then, since they did not have said equipment, please explain to us exactly what they are basing their comparisons with since there are supposedly no readings from previous years to compare them?


What kind of time frame are they saying that the quakes are not increasing in? Six months, a year, two years? What? Also, we did not base are statements on their website alone. We also spoke to several people there and found conflicting stories.


We can line up geologist on both sides of the isles to confirm both sides. However, we chose to print the official findings of the agency. Which is as I sent you. And which, I might add is current through 5-2001. If they want to say that these numbers are not accurate, then they should take them off their website and post new findings. Until then, our statement stands!


And just for the record, We really do not put much faith in anything they tell us or post. However, we related their figures because they are the only supposedly reliable source of stats.


I really do not mean this issue to become a point of contention between us. And I think I was a bit sharp with you in my previous email. Please forgive me.


God Bless you.


****************************************

Me:

I don’t want to labour the point here.


You wrote:


“That's rather peculiar reasoning. If they have more detection equipment and are detecting more earthquakes. Then it would stand to reason that had they possessed the same eauipment during previous years, then those numbers would also be higher. So then, since they did not have said equipment, please explain to us exactly what they are basing their comparisons with since there are supposedly no readings from previous years to compare them?”


Ask them yourself as I have. They will tell you that the equipment has become more sensitive and therefore erecords more. Ask them yourself and they will tell you that earthquakes are not increasing.


“We can line up geologist on both sides of the isles to confirm both sides.”


Then why do you only quote ones that agree with you. Is that not dishonest?


However, we chose to print the official findings of the agency. Which is as I sent you. And which, I might add is current through 5-2001. If they want to say that these numbers are not accurate, then they should take them off their website and post new findings. Until then, our statement stands!


And just for the record, We really do not put much faith in anything they tell us or post. However, we related their figures because they are the only supposedly reliable source of stats.


Then why do you put it on your web site?


I really do not mean this issue to become a point of contention between us. And I think I was a bit sharp with you in my previous email. Please forgive me.


No problem but I would like an answer back please.


**********************************

Now they start geting nasty:

I've got a great idea for you. Since you like asking them stuff. Why don't you ask them why they don't correct their website? Why are they supposedly saying one thing but posting another?

************************************************** ************

I wrote back:
For your information, here is the relevant part of their web site


Q: Why are we having so many earthquakes? Has earthquake activity been increasing?

A: Although it may seem that we are having more earthquakes, earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or greater have remained fairly constant throughout this century and, according to our records, have actually seemed to decrease in recent years. A partial explanation may lie in the fact that in the last twenty years, we have definitely had an increase in the number of earthquakes we have been able to locate each year. This is because of the tremendous increase in the number of seismograph stations in the world and the many improvements in global communications. In 1931, there were about 350 stations operating in the world; today, there are more that 4,000 stations and the data now comes in rapidly from these stations by telex, computer and satellite. This increase in the number of stations and the more timely receipt of data has allowed us and other seismological centers to locate many small earthquakes which were undetected in earlier years, and we are able to locate earthquakes more rapidly. The NEIC now locates about 12,000 to 14,000 earthquakes each year or approximately 35 per day. Also, because of the improvements in communications and the increased interest in natural disasters, the public now learns about more earthquakes. According to long-term records (since about 1900), we expect about 18 major earthquakes (7.0 - 7.9) and one great earthquake (8.0 or above) in any given year. However, let's take a look at what has happened in the past 32 years, from 1969 through 2001, so far. Our records show that 1992, and 1995-1997 were the only years that we have reached or exceeded the long-term average number of major earthquakes since 1971. In 1970 and in 1971 we had 20 and 19 major earthquakes, respectively, but in other years the total was in many cases well below the 18 per year which we may expect based on the long-term average.

See NEIC's Earthquake Statistics webpage for the tables of earthquake counts by magnitude
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Old 11-23-2001, 06:16 AM   #2
notto
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Something 5:12 - And in the end of days man will build great numbers of seismograph stations. This technology will confuse the ignorant and the web will allow the ignorant to broadcast to the world "I Don't Understand!".

[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: notto ]
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Old 11-23-2001, 07:52 AM   #3
diana
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What a dip.

But I think I understand his reasoning. To wit:

(1) The Infallible Word of God says earthquakes will increase in the last days.
(2) I am incapable of grasping even rudimentary technology and how it has increased our ability to sense earthquakes and communicate these occurrances, but I found a chart which appears to show that earthquakes are increasing.*
(3) Therefore, the End Days are upon us.
(4) Anyone who disagrees with my sound logic disagrees with Holy Writ, and is to be berated and ignored.

I hope this helps.

d

* I looked at the chart in question, by the way, and it appears to be a fairly balanced sprinkling of high and low activity periods, so I don't see where this person got "earthquakes are increasing" from this chart to begin with--unless you compare readings from the seventies and later with all readings prior, but that's really fetchin'.
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Old 11-26-2001, 07:13 PM   #4
Origian
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Brilliant synopsis diana - I think we should generalise this and name it the Theistic Complex:

(1) Supposedly the Infallible Word of God says something.
(2) I have been brought up to think/cannot be bothered finding out for myself/am scared that I will burn in 'hell'/like keeping my head in the sand and ignoring all evidence to the contrary that maybe he did not say anything.
(3) Therefore, the Infallible Word of God is true.
(4) Anyone who disagrees with my sound logic disagrees with Holy Writ, is to be berated and ignored, and will eventually meet their judgement in hell. I don't want this/am scared by this, so I go back to (2) and get stuck in the loop.
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Old 11-26-2001, 07:31 PM   #5
Kosh
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Quote:
Originally posted by Origian:
<STRONG>Brilliant synopsis diana - I think we should generalise this and name it the Theistic Complex:</STRONG>
Or the Readers Digest Abridged version:

[fingers in ears]
la la la la la la

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Old 11-26-2001, 10:56 PM   #6
xoc
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It's worthy to point out the Bible does NOT say that earthquakes will increase before the endtimes. Jesus simply states matter of fact that "there will be wars and rumours of wars...but the end is not yet" and "nation shall rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be famines, etc. This is the beginning of sorrows." There is no word to say that it would "increase" or it is a sign of the end; moreso he seems to be saying to expect this kind of thing. It's as fallacious to interpret the Bible as saying Christ prophesied "earthquakes to increase in numbers" near the end as any other interpretation made. (although the Book of Revelation discloses a number of earthquakes, some horrendously destructive, beyond what we consider horrendous normally... and a specific earthquake that kills 7000 in Jerusalem).
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Old 11-27-2001, 08:06 AM   #7
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A-Theist stated:
“It's worthy to point out the Bible does NOT say that earthquakes will increase before the endtimes. Jesus simply states matter of fact that "there will be wars and rumours of wars...but the end is not yet" and "nation shall rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be famines, etc. This is the beginning of sorrows." There is no word to say that it would "increase" or it is a sign of the end; moreso he seems to be saying to expect this kind of thing. It's as fallacious to interpret the Bible as saying Christ prophesied "earthquakes to increase in numbers" near the end as any other interpretation made. (although the Book of Revelation discloses a number of earthquakes, some horrendously destructive, beyond what we consider horrendous normally... and a specific earthquake that kills 7000 in Jerusalem).”

Okay – doesn’t this “prophecy” seem a bit vague – not very different from those predictions one can get from Ms. Cleo or Dionne Warwick’s psychics? How many famines have struck the world before and after Jesus and how many nations and kingdoms have risen up against each other in our time alone (not to mention the 2,000 years since Jesus’ arrival)? And oooh – the awesome prediction of this being the “beginning of sorrows.” How accurate for an omnipotent god-man! It really doesn’t take much intelligent OR divine intervention to make statements such as those. Here are a few listings of MODERN earthquakes that have ravaged cities across the word and many far exceed the paltry “7,000 in Jerusalem.” Certainly, the hundreds of thousands dead in China in 1976 makes Jesus’ prediction in Jerusalem seem feeble.

Here are just a few listings of worldwide earthquakes in the last few years, along with some ancient ones as well:

1935: 7.5 magnitude hits Pakistan 90 miles SW of Quetta killing 30,000 people.

February 28, 1997 6.1 magnitude killed 965 in Tabriz, Iran and in 1990 a 7.7 killed 40-50,000 people in that area.

Aug 17, 1999 7.4 magnitude hits Izmit, Turkey killing 17,000.

Sept. 20, 1999 7.6 magnitude hits Taiwan and 2,400 people are killed

Aug 20, 2000 Istanbul, Turkey – 10,000 killed and 34,000 injured

Jan. 26, 2001 Gujurat, India atleast 7,000 are dead and in Bhuj, Anjaar, Rapa, and Ahmedabad approximately 100,000 people are killed by an earthquake.

The deadliest year in this century was in 1976 when one quake in Tianjin, China killed between 255,000 and 600,000 people.

Some ancient earthquakes – 856 – 45,000 killed in Corinth

1755 70,000 killed in Lisbon, Portugal

In 1556 800,000 people killed in Japan

May 1202, Syria – approximately 230,000 killed by an earthquake …

And Jerusalem lies on a very active fault line and there have been many devastating earthquakes in that area. Meggido/Armageddon has been destroyed many times through out history by earthquakes and Israel and Jordan exist on opposite side of the seismically active Dead Sea Rift. Is it any wonder that this is the place believed in Revelation to be where the clash between good and evil is staged?

Maybe Jesus’ prediction of this earthquake would have been better served by naming a specific date and time of this supposed earthquake in Jerusalem, or any where else for that matter. Or even more poignantly had he made a prediction such as the death of millions of Jews in Nazi Germany, along with a beginning and ending date would lend a bit more credibility to the voracity of his “prophetic” powers and his godly nature. Especially, since according to the Christian notion of this god he knows everything even before it happens and surely this accurate knowledge will allow him to predict a bit better than a “phone” psychic.

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Old 11-27-2001, 08:08 AM   #8
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correction: in 1556 800,00 people killed in China, not Japan.

Brighid
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Old 11-27-2001, 08:22 AM   #9
brighid
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An interesting link in regards to seismic activity in Israel:
http://geotech.civen.okstate.edu/ejge/ppr9704/Part4.htm

Brighid
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Old 11-27-2001, 03:59 PM   #10
xoc
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First of all, "Jesus" didn't predict the Jerusalem earthquake I was talking about(that is during his life on earth at least.) Second, the two points were NOT put together, but that may be my fault for not clearing it up more. The earthquake where 7000 are killed happens when the "two witnesses" rise from the dead and ascend into heaven, so there is no point looking for a fulfillment of it apart from that.

Second, the point WAS *not* to take wars, rumours of wars etc. as proof that the end is coming ("Soon").
"And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet." (Mt24:6) All of Matthew 24:4-13 is an "intermediary" period before the end. The point is NOT to take it as proof that the end is "coming", for these things are not a sign of the end. That's what I said, if you can get it.

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (vs. 14)
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