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Old 05-06-2001, 04:50 PM   #1
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Post OT Human Sacrifice?

I just read the story of Jephthah's Tragic Vow - (Judges 11:29-40).

Seems this guy Jephthah makes a vow - if the LORD will give the sons of Ammon into his hand - he vows to offer up to the Lord as a burnt offering the first thing that comes out of his doors to greet him upon his return. Of course, Jephthah and his people slaughter Ammon's people... and then Jephthah's only child, a young daughter, comes out of the door to greet him upon his return, she's all happy, dancing and playing the tambourine. Jephthah tells her about the vow and she appears to be cool with it, asks for a couple months to go into the mountains and 'mourn her virginity.'

So after she goes off to the mountains with her friends for 2 months to mourn her virginity, "she returned to her father, who did to her according to the vow which he had made."

That is very heavy.

So, according to this, the LORD accepted human sacrifice...

hmmmm....

Does anyone else out there get the creeps reading this?
 
Old 05-06-2001, 04:59 PM   #2
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I'd be curious what she did those few months in the mountains "mourning" her virginity.

My guess is she spent a lot of time lying down...

Hey...why don't some enterprising atheists put some of these wonderful passages on billboards around the country so Christians can see the real sh*t thats in their bible.

God only knows most of 'em don't read it or know it.

[This message has been edited by Lance (edited May 06, 2001).]
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Old 05-06-2001, 08:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Teutonic:
. . .
Does anyone else out there get the creeps reading this?
</font>
I do, and I wouldn't even assume that it happened that way just because it was written in the Bible. Why is this moral lesson in the holy Bible?

I have read of other traditions of human sacrifice or Hindu suttee, which claimed that people who go to their deaths for these religious reasons do so with acceptance. It still gives me the creeps.

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Old 05-06-2001, 10:00 PM   #4
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And we call this "wisdom"...

30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands,

31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the LORD gave them into his hands.

33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.

34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter.

35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, "Oh! My daughter! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break."

36 "My father," she replied, "you have given your word to the LORD. Do to me just as you promised, now that the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites.

37 But grant me this one request," she said. "Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry."

38 "You may go," he said. And he let her go for two months. She and the girls went into the hills and wept because she would never marry.

39 After the two months, she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin. From this comes the Israelite custom (uh huh...)

40 that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
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Old 05-07-2001, 02:19 AM   #5
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Where is the claim that this is 'wisdom' in the Bible? The story is told very non-committal. One shouldn't argue to *do* something or that something is OK just because someone did it in the Bible.
 
Old 05-07-2001, 06:48 AM   #6
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theist -
“Where is the claim that this is 'wisdom' in the Bible? The story is told very non-committal. One shouldn't argue to *do* something or that something is OK just because someone did it in the Bible.”

If you are a Christian you believe that the bible is the inspired word of god given to men through the interference of the holy spirit. It is possible that you believe the bible to be the inerrant word of god. And if the aforementioned quote IS your position then what is one to do with the BIBLE? Is not the bible a dictation as to what god wants from man? Could one not argue that many events happened in the lives of the Israelites, but only certain events made it into the bible because GOD felt it was necessary to have the events narrated for the betterment of posterity? Why on Earth would a god INSIST that this particular story be given to man through the guidance of the holy spirit and remembered by all who read it? Can it be said that some things, possibly many things in the bible should not be taken literally? How does one decipher which parts to keep and which parts to throw out? Do I keep the parts that suit me and discard those that seems “wrong?” If one does, isn’t one admitting that god has erred? What does that say about the god of the Judeo-Christian bible? What is one to learn from the particular story? If this god is omnipotent, he must have known that this mans daughter would be the first to enter, know the pain and sorrow such a vow would cause this man (not to mention breaking a supreme commandment of thou shalt not murder), yet this god said “OK, I will give you what you request and hand you these innocent men, women and children so you may slay them, take their lands, their herds, their virgins and moneys and in return you will give me a burnt offering.” So, god knew the girl would be the sacrificial lamb, but he did not stop this man from fulfilling this vow. He allowed a human sacrifice to be made in homage of Him.

My opinion is that this god is cruel, malicious and a trickster. Maybe we could see if from the point of view that when man makes a murderous bargain with a god, that something equally as horrible will befall man. But it hardly seems fair that this man should loose his only child for the slaughter of hundreds, if not thousands of innocent men, women and children.

I look forward to the answers to my questions.

brighid
 
Old 05-07-2001, 07:00 AM   #7
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The answer is easy!

Take as morally instructive those parts of the bible that agree with what you already believe to be true.

Ignore, dismiss, or render metaphorical those parts of the bible that do not agree with what you already believe to be true.

 
Old 05-07-2001, 09:13 AM   #8
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Brighid: I know!!!! The Christian God is really the Norse God Loki in disguise!!!!
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Old 05-07-2001, 09:23 AM   #9
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Echo -

That is exactly the reason I do not call myself a Christian!

Brighid
 
Old 05-07-2001, 09:26 AM   #10
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Lance,

The Christian god is many gods in disguise – like Krishna, Dionysius, Osiris, Mithras, and the list goes on and on. It’s too bad they had to go a mess up LOKI and then claim he is something new!
 
 

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