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Old 10-08-2001, 01:55 PM   #61
tony1
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Quote:
Originally posted by hezekiahjones:
Angry little man, aren't you?
Nope, just quoting the Bible.

As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
(Psalms 68:2, KJV).

For our God is a consuming fire.
(Hebrews 12:29, KJV).
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Old 10-08-2001, 02:03 PM   #62
hezekiah jones
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Yeah, I read somewhere that that's what so-called christians do, and it didn't appear to be much help. That guy was right.
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Old 10-08-2001, 02:10 PM   #63
tony1
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Quote:
Originally posted by hezekiahjones:
I read somewhere that that's what so-called christians do, and it didn't appear to be much help. That guy was right.
So your argument appears to be based on what you thought someone else said about what they thought.

Very helpful.

OTOH, if the guy was right maybe you should read the rest of what he wrote.
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Old 10-08-2001, 02:15 PM   #64
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tony1,

Quite what your contribution adds to the debate I fail to fathom, are you saying that non-believers are, not only mere trash thatís only fit for incineration, or that we are incapable of understanding the biblical concept of hell, on both counts you are mistaken.

To simply rehearse tired old ideas without any reasoned argument will not cut it here.

My regards, Steph.
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Old 10-08-2001, 02:28 PM   #65
hezekiah jones
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Quote:
Originally posted by tony1:
So your argument appears to be based on what you thought someone else said about what they thought.
Uh, no. My "argument" was based on tony1's sweeping dismissal of all the other "so-called christians" on this thread in favor of the one and only "true" interpretation, as proffered by tony1. Nothing beats unintentional comedy.

Quote:
Very helpful.
It was. Especially given the fact that you unwittingly reinforced your own original point. Please keep the laughs coming.
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Old 10-08-2001, 03:28 PM   #66
tony1
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steph:
are you saying that non-believers are, not only mere trash thatís only fit for incineration, or that we are incapable of understanding the biblical concept of hell, on both counts you are mistaken.
Keep in mind the incineration would happen after your death, so if you believe you'll be dead at the time, what is the problem?
OTOH, if you believe you will be resurrected at the time, then what basis would you have for considering yourself a non-believer?

As for not being capable of understanding, allow me to say that the concept of hell is quite simple to understand, provided you go by the actual definition of the word.

If you fail to understand it because of some special Christianese or Catholic definition, then rest assured, not even the most hardcore Catholic theologian could understand it.

Quote:
Originally posted by hezekiahjones:
My "argument" was based on tony1's sweeping dismissal of all the other "so-called christians" on this thread in favor of the one and only "true" interpretation, as proffered by tony1.
Well, there is the interpretation based on the actual meanings of words.
You may wish to call it "the only true" interpretation, if you wish.
I suspect that you would be just as keen to establish the "true" meaning of words, if the word chosen for arbitrary redefinition were, say, "paycheck."

Quote:
Especially given the fact that you unwittingly reinforced your own original point.
Given that "hell" is very closely related to "paycheck," except over a longer term, perhaps you should look into it.
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Old 10-08-2001, 05:09 PM   #67
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Strong's no. 1067 geenna {gheh'-en-nah}
of Hebrew origin 01516 and 02011

1) Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or
"Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom,
south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the
city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and
their future destruction.

It seems that the hell here & that of tony1 are quite different in the sense that the :

1 Matt 5:22 Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Translated to tony1 would read,

Thou fool, shall be in danger of grave fire.

2 Matt 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Translated into tony1,

(snip) thy whole body should be cast into grave.

3 Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Translated to tony1,

(Snip) destroy both soul & body in grave.

4 Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Translated into tony1,

(Snip) than having 2 feet to be cast into grave, into the fire that never shall be quenched.

Listed just 4 examples & can anyone tell me how many of them makes sense if hell is interpreted as grave/pit or whatever.
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Old 10-08-2001, 05:22 PM   #68
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If tony1 is interpeting "hell" as permanent death, and non existence, I for one do not have a problem at all, since that is what I believe will happen to me when I die and get cremated anyway.

The universe got on pretty well without me for 15 or so billion years before I came along, and I am certain that it will continue to do so up until the day it dies a heat death many billions of years from now.

Norm
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Old 10-08-2001, 07:11 PM   #69
hezekiah jones
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Quote:
Originally posted by tony1:
Given that "hell" is very closely related to "paycheck," except over a longer term, perhaps you should look into it.
You must mean Johnny Paycheck: "Take This Job 11:7-9 and Shove It."
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Old 10-09-2001, 12:15 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toto:
Once you admit that the holy scripture is infallible, what do you base Christianity on? If you try to pick out only the historically accurate or reasonable parts, you are left with very little
I assume you mean "once you admit that the holy scripture is fallible". Well, I disagree, of course. There are many parts of the Bible that can't be verified historically from outside sources -- you probably therefore reject those parts; I don't.

Quote:
But that is the essense of skepticism. Test everything, reject what is false. Don't follow holy scripture.
So why aren't Christians allowed to use the same skepticism?

Regards,

- Scrutinizer
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