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Old 08-12-2001, 11:44 AM   #1
Adrienne Williams
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Talking Bible Prophecies..could this one be real?

I have read several essays thoroughly debunking the various Bible prophecies, but I have yet to read anything about the one prophecy that seems most credible...the one in Daniel where Gabriel comes to him and tells him that Israel will become a nation again.

Is anyone here familiar with that one? I've provided some background information from http://www.pytlik.com/observe/deliverus/timetv-02.html

I would appreciate if anyone can offer an explanation about this prophecy.

Gabriel talking to Daniel says:

"This will be a sign to the house of Israel. Then lie on your left side and put the sin of the house of Israel upon yourself. You are to bear their sin for the number of days you lie on your side. I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the house of Israel. After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the house of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year."
(Ezekiel 4:4-6)


On the afternoon of May 14, 1948, an old Rabbi blew on a ram's horn and the Jewish people began to celebrate an astonishing feat. Their worldwide dispersion and terrible persecution under the Nazi regime was over. With help from the United Nations, Israel would once again fly a flag of its own. It was the first time in history that a nation that had ceased to exist would again be called by its name.


You can calculate the dates of Daniel's prophecy for yourself. Here's a handy guide:

Starting Point:
March 14, 445BC.

62 + 7 = 69 weeks of years.

69 x 7 = 483 biblical years of 360 days each.

483 x 360 days = 173,880 days in Daniel's prophecy.

445 + 31 = 476 modern years between March 14, 445BC and March 14, 32AD. Note that there is only 1 year between 1BC and 1AD.

476 x 365 = 173,740 days. We'll allow for leap years next.

173,740 + 116 leap days = 173,856 total days Mar 14 to Mar 14.

173,856 + 24 (Mar 14 to Apr 6) = 173,880 days.


According to my boyfriend (not exactly an authority on the subject) Israel becoming a state wasn't even possible before this...that it was the earliest opportunity they had to become a state. Any and all thoughts on this are most welcome. I, unlike my boyfriend, do not think that if this prophecy is real that it automatically equates to God's existence or that it lends credence to the Bible, but it would be pretty darned freaky, no?

Regards,
Adrienne
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Old 08-12-2001, 12:06 PM   #2
hezekiah jones
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adrienne Williams:
http://www.pytlik.com/observe/deliverus/timetv-02.html
This website claims the author of Daniel was writing circa 550 BCE. I wasn't aware that anyone outside the christian fundamentalist community still ascribes such an early date to Daniel. This erroneous assumption makes the rest of the dates irrelevant.
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Old 08-12-2001, 12:20 PM   #3
Adrienne Williams
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Talking

This website claims the author of Daniel was writing circa 550 BCE. I wasn't aware that anyone outside the christian fundamentalist community still ascribes such an early date to Daniel. This erroneous assumption makes the rest of the dates irrelevant.
_____________________________________________
Of course you are right that if Daniel was written later..the prophecy wouldn't be fulfilled. When was Daniel thought to be written then?

Thanks again!

Adrienne
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Old 08-12-2001, 12:37 PM   #4
hezekiah jones
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As far as I know, circa 165 BCE. There are numerous external and internal references that support this assertion. Support for the earlier date is derived essentially from internal, necessarily circular references. Which is generally how the fundies operate.

Try this link.
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:07 PM   #5
Adrienne Williams
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Thank you very much, the link answered my questions fully!

Adrienne
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:09 PM   #6
hezekiah jones
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Come to think of it, enter [daniel maccabees] (without the square brackets] at google.com and you'll find more info, including a few articles from the infidels.org library.
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:26 PM   #7
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OMIGAWD! That site is shocking. Check out the page on The Flood.

Quote:
According to some calculations, if the flood account was false, the world's population would today number about 10^2091 people. That staggering number is 10 followed by 2091 zeros--a number many times greater than the total number of atoms in the universe.
With maths and reasoning like that, I can't be bothered even looking at his sums regarding Daniel.
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Old 08-12-2001, 07:53 PM   #8
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I think the real question here is how many people made this calculation before Israel became a state, or is this -- and I consider this likely -- a retrofitting of facts to make it appear a prediction has been made?

For example, where did the start date come from? Never mind the fact that many if not most scholars date it from the second century B.C., where did that March 14, 550 B.C. date come from? There's no indication in the text that I know of that would give such an exact date. How much would you want to bet that someone did the calculations after Israel's resurrection in 1948. You'd have to be extremely gullible to fall for such an obvious ploy.

Oh, and Israel wasn't the first nation to be born again. Off the top of my head, Poland beat Israel twice, the first by forty years.

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: DennisM ]

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: DennisM ]
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Old 08-12-2001, 10:15 PM   #9
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The real meaning of "Israel will become a nation" in 40 days means that salvation in Judaism will be when Jews rely on the right side of their brain for fourty days. The sins of the clan/tribe/nation are to be born by the left side of the brain before the right side can be victorious.

Remember here that the children of Israel spend 40 years wandering in the desert and died nonetheless. They failed to mature and become Israel because of unbelief through sola scriptura while wandering (Is-ra-el = one-with-God).

That Israel is an actual nation again only means that Jews are mesmerized by the bible and to make this possible the help of brown nosing Christians was needed. It has nothing to do with the Messiah but once again proves unbelief.

Amos
 
Old 08-12-2001, 10:23 PM   #10
Daggah
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pantera:
<STRONG>OMIGAWD! That site is shocking. Check out the page on The Flood.

With maths and reasoning like that, I can't be bothered even looking at his sums regarding Daniel.</STRONG>
Actually, Pantera, I've seen something similar to that before. An assumption was made that every family would have four (!!!) children in order to make the calculation.
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