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Old 06-19-2001, 04:44 AM   #81
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by turtonm:
Sitchin is a total idiot of the Eric Von Daniken school. Nothing Sitchin says is actually possible, much of it is racist, and all of it is wrong.
Michael
</font>
Hey, calm down turtonum.
Which Zechariah Sitchin books have you read? How is he racist?
Is Erich Von Daniken also an idiot?

 
Old 06-19-2001, 09:15 AM   #82
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Here is some van Daniken info
http://skepdic.com/vondanik.html

Lessee he faked some of his proof because folks wouldn't believe his theory without it.......hmmm....maybe not an idiot, but it certainly casts aspersions on his theory.
 
Old 06-19-2001, 10:26 AM   #83
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jaliet:
Hey, calm down turtonum.
Which Zechariah Sitchin books have you read? How is he racist?
Is Erich Von Daniken also an idiot?
</font>
The idea that aliens built the various megalithic structures around the world is simply a modern reworking of the old racist ideas that the locals there were too dumb to. Sitchin is following this tradition.

Van Daniken is both an idiot and a fraud, although he can't be too much of an idiot, since he did make big bucks.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...rg/mainpyr.htm

is Frank Doernenburg's masterful page that totally annihilates any and all Sitchin claims about the Pyramids.

Michael
 
Old 06-19-2001, 10:46 AM   #84
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nogods4me:
Here is some van Daniken info
http://skepdic.com/vondanik.html

Lessee he faked some of his proof because folks wouldn't believe his theory without it.......hmmm....maybe not an idiot, but it certainly casts aspersions on his theory.
</font>
I actually read today about Von Daniken faking some drawings - on some pots or something. Such a huge shame. And to think that I shared his "beliefs"!
I know Sitchin has many critics, but I beleive that he has a point. He could be using the wring evidence, but I beleive there are enough unanswered questions. At least they have a theory as to how some things came to be - The Pyramids, The Stonehenge, Nacza Plains, Olmec Heads, Macchu Picchu etc. The best approach would be to offer alternative answers/ theories. Ridculing their theories doesnt really help. Constructive criticism, which most have done, is reallt helpful.
Thanks for the link.

So where does that leave us?

Big Bang?
I
 
Old 06-19-2001, 02:48 PM   #85
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Originally posted by jaliet:
I know Sitchin has many critics, but I beleive that he has a point. He could be using the wring evidence, but I beleive there are enough unanswered questions. At least they have a theory as to how some things came to be - The Pyramids, The Stonehenge, Nacza Plains, Olmec Heads, Macchu Picchu etc. The best approach would be to offer alternative answers/ theories.

There are such theories. They are called "archaeology." Macchu Picchu was built by the Incas, nobody but a few wackos disputes that. The Pyramids were indisputably built by Egyptian work gangs using local technology who left their graffiti on the inside, nobody but a few wackos disputes that. Stonehenge was built by the megalithic builders of Europe who left similar structures all over Europe. Etc. Building vast, low-tech objects of stone was a pastime in antiquity, even the aborigines of Taiwan did it.

Michael
 
Old 06-19-2001, 04:00 PM   #86
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Please, let's not lump Sitchin in with Von Daniken. Granted when Sitchin wanders too far off his core thesis (that the Annunaki were flesh and blood beings who came to earth from 'the heavens' created mankind to be there laborers and gradualy taught them civilization) he does sound silly, especially when he trys to string all these ancient poems into a complete story. Sitchins grasp on astronomy is lame but the Enuma Elish is a legend after all, even the Annunaki were not around when the solar system was created, maybe this was a bedtime story they told the Sumerians when they were good.
I've seen Sitchin and to only the most PC is he a 'racist'. He's a nice old eccentric Jewish guy pushing 90. He may be a super hyper diffusionist, but to me that does not automaticaly brand him a racist. He claims aliens influenced humans not whitefolk. After all the Annunaki were half human half reptillian, the hideious ones, as the Babylonians called them.
And Sitchin can at least do some research, he does have the testimony of the ancient people to back his claim, read the Atrahasis it's all there, the 'Creation of Mankind by Enki' tells of the trouble the Annunaki had creating a new race, "a primitve man exists! we will put our mark on him" the first humans were sterile, deformed, often incontinent or had bowel problems, often couldn't walk right. Odd that the first people on earth who could write tell these stories and credit ugly snake people with 'giving' them civilization.
The real question is who or what were the Annunaki? Sitchin takes these stories literally and thinks they were aliens, Alford thinks they were anthrpomorhizes (?) stories about celestial events, Andru Collins in his book "The Ashes of Angels" thinks they may have been a more civilized tribe from Kurdistan who moved to Sumer. They could have been the as yet undiscovered folks who lived where the Black Sea now is, moved and brought there great flood story with them. (see the Black Sea Project, National Geographic) or they could have been the type of 'beings' Shaman encounter in their trances, drug induced or otherwise. What do you think?
Unfortunately the only people who really knew the answer have been dead for 6000 years.

"I gave you your civillization, I can take it away"-Ra, from the movie 'Stargate'




[This message has been edited by marduck (edited June 19, 2001).]
 
Old 06-20-2001, 04:23 AM   #87
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">There are such theories. They are called "archaeology." Macchu Picchu was built by the Incas, nobody but a few wackos disputes that. The Pyramids were indisputably built by Egyptian work gangs using local technology who left their graffiti on the inside, nobody but a few wackos disputes that. Stonehenge was built by the megalithic builders of Europe who left similar structures all over Europe. Etc. Building vast, low-tech objects of stone was a pastime in antiquity, even the aborigines of Taiwan did it.
Michael[/B]</font>
Nobody but a few wackos disputes that. Well, well, well. Strong words.
The monoliths at stonehenge - there are those that could weigh 60 tons. And those stones were mined miles off. Cranes that can handle such weights are not mobile - and if they are, they have been built very recently.
How do your anthropologists suggest the ancient people transported those stones? What primitive technology could have been used? and Why was it so important? how could they have hoisted those stones on top of each other?

There are grooves in the stones in the pyramids that have been said not to have been made with any ordinary sharp chisel - but by sound technology - where could the ancients have got such technology?
Then the 51 degree angle of the pyramids - a fairly heigh level of physics/mathematics is required in order to have come up with such an angle...

We dont even know what the pyramids were made for. The idea that they were to be used for the dead spirits to travel to heaven has been found to be a myth. They had a functional, material purpose

The simplistic theories that egyptologists and anthropologists give leave a lot of questions unanswered. Thats why we need people like sitchin. To open our eyes to other possibilities.

If Sitchin is wack, what about David Icke of www.davidicke.com?
What do you cynics think about the idea that the world is controlled by the illuminati? I'd sure like to hear your opinion on David Ickes ideas. Not that I necessarily agree with him.

Remember Galileo Galilei was once considered a lunatic.



 
Old 06-20-2001, 05:14 AM   #88
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oh please not Icke and his shapshifting lizards (ok maybe Strom Thurmond is one).......need we replace one foolish mythology with another?....... it may take us tens of decades to determine how and why certain of the structures you mention were built, there exists no credible evidence to suggest anything other than human beings were involved.
 
Old 06-20-2001, 07:17 AM   #89
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jaliet, are you serious in mentioning some of these people? I'm afraid you have much more faith than Christians if you believe their theories...

I don't know where you came up with the idea that "The idea that they [the Egyptian pyramids] were to be used for the dead spirits to travel to heaven has been found to be a myth." It is a theory and a most likely one given pyramid inscriptions and writings of that time period.

As far as how the pyramids were built, try reading Herodotus (5th century BC). Of course he didn't travel to Egypt when the pyramids were being built, but he had a good idea of how they might have been built from talking with natives. And he lived a lot closer to that time period than we do... If you're interested in Mummies, he also gives an explanation of how they made mummies.

Ish

[This message has been edited by Ish (edited June 20, 2001).]
 
Old 06-20-2001, 07:23 AM   #90
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by marduck:
Please, let's not lump Sitchin in with Von Daniken.

Why not? They have the same ideas.

I've seen Sitchin and to only the most PC is he a 'racist'.

Sitichin's ideas are racist. Their pedigree descends from the early Europeans who, with their racist imagination, thought that there was no way the ancients could have done the things they did.

They also stem from a small-child view of technology as (really big) artifacts. Actually the great achievements of antiquity did not involve the moving of great rocks, which many cultures did, but the canal system of China, the zero, Greek democracy, sewing and fire, writing, and hundreds of other things that were genuine progress, and which only a total wacko would link to aliens.

induced or otherwise. What do you think?

Either they represent people, or they are invention. But they aren't aliens.

Michael
 
 

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