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Old 05-05-2001, 04:03 PM   #1
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Post Pagan influence on Christianity

I have been trying to find some information on the pagan influence on Christianity. I've looked at encyclopedias to try and get some objective facts and dates so that I can determine for myself which religion had the impact on the other in these areas:
1. Virgin birth
2. Death on a cross/tree
3. Hell
4. Resurrection
5. Holidays
6. Symbols

I have read some random articles, but I would like some more factual sources. I'm really sick of hearing statements that claim Christianity is so original, like "Only Jesus can do something about your sin, Buddha can't", or "Every other founder of a religion is still in their grave, but Jesus is not"
Even though I am sick of those statements, I need to get over myself so I can be objective about this.
The cult of Mithras, and Krishna at first provided me with some arguments, but it seems like some shaky ground there. Mithraism was a secret cult with no scriptures, so its hard to know what they really believed and it seems like Krishna's character, teachings, and actions seemed to have evolved over time. I'm still not convinced that some of the parallelisms in hinduism predated Christianity. Any help with sources, or new arguments in this area would be appreciated.

Fletch F. Fletch
Shepherd
 
Old 05-05-2001, 08:12 PM   #2
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ErwinFletcher:
I have been trying to find some information on the pagan influence on Christianity. I've looked at encyclopedias to try and get some objective facts and dates so that I can determine for myself which religion had the impact on the other in these areas:
1. Virgin birth
2. Death on a cross/tree
3. Hell
4. Resurrection
5. Holidays
6. Symbols

I have read some random articles, but I would like some more factual sources. I'm really sick of hearing statements that claim Christianity is so original, like "Only Jesus can do something about your sin, Buddha can't", or "Every other founder of a religion is still in their grave, but Jesus is not"
Even though I am sick of those statements, I need to get over myself so I can be objective about this.
The cult of Mithras, and Krishna at first provided me with some arguments, but it seems like some shaky ground there. Mithraism was a secret cult with no scriptures, so its hard to know what they really believed and it seems like Krishna's character, teachings, and actions seemed to have evolved over time. I'm still not convinced that some of the parallelisms in hinduism predated Christianity. Any help with sources, or new arguments in this area would be appreciated.

Fletch F. Fletch
Shepherd
</font>
First thing to do is remove the idea of Christinity from religion. Christianity is the condition of being called Christian in Christendom. Catholicism is the religion to serve as a means to this end and probably borrowed some of its imagery from other pagan mythologies.
 
Old 05-05-2001, 08:32 PM   #3
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Amos123: And SURELY the protestants didn't borrow a thing, eh???

Same cult, different sect.
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Old 05-05-2001, 08:51 PM   #4
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lance:
Amos123: And SURELY the protestants didn't borrow a thing, eh???

Same cult, different sect.
</font>

Sola scriptura the same as sola fide? They are opposites are they not? Furthermore Catholicism not a cult nor is it a sect.
 
Old 05-06-2001, 04:21 AM   #5
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Here is a Christian perspective on how Christianity borrowed stuff from other religions. It specifically mentions Mithra, Horus, Krishna, and Buddha

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycat.html
http://www.messianicart.com/chazak/JCMyth_1.html
http://www.comereason.org/cmp_rlgn/cmp065.htm

-Caleb
 
Old 05-06-2001, 04:23 AM   #6
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If you are going to bicker about Catholicism, please do it in a different place where you will not turn people off from all of Christianty. Thanks.

-Caleb
 
Old 05-06-2001, 07:54 AM   #7
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Amos123: First thing to do is remove the idea of Christinity from religion. Christianity is the condition of being called
Christian in Christendom. Catholicism is the religion to serve as a means to this end and probably borrowed
some of its imagery from other pagan mythologies.


Me: I don't even know what that means, "Christianity is the condition...", but I don't feel like arguing over semantics or over who screwed up Christianity the most. What I wanted was some ideas for some objective facts on the matter. I dln't think that it is as trivial as the catholics having a few borrowed symbols or customs either. I mean the OT idea of Sheol is certainly not even close to the NT places of Hell, wether it be Gehenna, or whatever. But in between the two testaments, there was plenty of time for the pagan idea of hell to infiltrate. And if you don't think sheol is all that different, then why did Jonah only spend three days there and still survive? Anyway, I'd like someone to a) read my post, and
b) give me some sources

BTW, thanks Caleb for the links, I'll check those out.

 
Old 05-06-2001, 09:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ErwinFletcher:
Amos123: First thing to do is remove the idea of Christinity from religion. Christianity is the condition of being called
Christian in Christendom. Catholicism is the religion to serve as a means to this end and probably borrowed
some of its imagery from other pagan mythologies.


Me: I don't even know what that means, "Christianity is the condition...", but I don't feel like arguing over semantics or over who screwed up Christianity the most. What I wanted was some ideas for some objective facts on the matter. I dln't think that it is as trivial as the catholics having a few borrowed symbols or customs either. I mean the OT idea of Sheol is certainly not even close to the NT places of Hell, wether it be Gehenna, or whatever. But in between the two testaments, there was plenty of time for the pagan idea of hell to infiltrate. And if you don't think sheol is all that different, then why did Jonah only spend three days there and still survive? Anyway, I'd like someone to a) read my post, and
b) give me some sources

BTW, thanks Caleb for the links, I'll check those out.

</font>
If you want concrete evidence you should go look for the ark.

Jonah spend three days and was beached on dry land never to drown in his own mire.
 
Old 05-06-2001, 10:14 AM   #9
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I have read some random articles, but I would like some more factual sources. I'm really sick of hearing statements that claim Christianity is so original, like "Only Jesus can do something about your sin, Buddha can't", or "Every other founder of a religion is still in their grave, but Jesus is not"

I guess I don't understand why this is such a big deal. Every religious concept was "original" at some point in time. Since when does originality lend any credence at all to particular claims being true or false? Suppose the majority of Christian claims originate with early Christians. I don't see why this should bother anyone or "make them sick" to hear it.

 
Old 05-06-2001, 10:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ErwinFletcher:
I have been trying to find some information on the pagan influence on Christianity. </font>
Start with Paul's authentic letters, do an in-depth immersion into the social/political world of Constantine's empire and stay abreast of the incredible growth of Christianity in places like China, India and especially Africa. Plenty of pagan influences!

Normative Christianity is in the midst of a paradigm shift. Jesus wouldn't recognize Pauline Christianity and Paul, I believe, would be lost and angry today.

Newsweek Magazine had a lengthy recent article by Ken Woodward on the growing syncretistic strains of Christianity. Christianity Today Magazine has had similar articles in the past from a "faith perspective," although one needs to read between the lines to appreciate the dislocation and undercurrents of change to "traditional" Christianity.

Jesus the Galilean was pointing to something he called "the Kingdom of God" but the church ended up pointing at the pointing finger of someone it called "Jesus Christ."
 
 

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