Bob K

Paraphrases and Comments on a Translation of the Bel Myth Tablet
Copyright © 2001
Robert Howard Kroepel
20 South Shore Road
New Durham New Hampshire, USA 03855

From: Christopher B. F. Walker, Keeper
Department of Ancient Near East
The British Museum
London, England

The Babylonian Epic of Creation: Restored from the recently recovered Tablets of Assur

Translation and Commentary by S. Langdon, M.A.

Clarendon Press, Oxford, England, 1923.

The tablet containing references to the Bel myth is in the possession of The British Museum; C. Walker states that it was created circa 700 B.C.E. and was discovered in Nineveh, Assyria.

The following are my notes and paraphrases of Langdon’s text with direct references by means of page numbers to Langdon’s text of comments and information and with direct references by means of Line numbers to Langdon’s translation.

p. 32. The tablet, recovered by Germans from excavations in Assyria, refer to a New Year’s festival celebration performed in Assyria which was very similar to a New Year’s festival celebration performed in Babylon. The Babylonian poem, The Epic of Creation, celebrated the Babylonian god, Marduk, and the Babylonian New Year’s festival celebration therefore celebrated also Marduk; but Assyrians substituted their deity, Assur, in place of Marduk.

In Babylon, Marduk was a solar god who died, descended into the earth, or a lower world, and was resurrected, or returned to the upper world, each year at the spring equinox, when the sun/day/light gained more time and therefore victory over night/darkness.

Marduk is also called Bel (Babylonian) or Baal (Jewish). The Marduk/Bel myth is therefore called the Bel-Marduk or Marduk-Bel myth.

pp. 32-33. Langdon speculates that the Bel-Marduk text and mythology was based upon an older mythology of Tammuz, a god who died yearly, descended into a lower world, and resurrected/returned to the upper world.

p. 33. The tablet discovered in Assyria is the only source for the death and resurrection of Bel-Marduk. Professor H. Zimmern wrote the first interpretation and a list of the parallels to the Jesus myth including an arrest, trial, scourging, crucifixion, and resurrection.

What do I read in Langdon’s translation that supports Zimmern’s contentions?

The translation is not in clear, straightforward english. The grammar is disjointed. There is no linear timeline, and people, things and events are presented and discussed out of their chronological order. There are gaps among the words which disturb the sense of the words, and I assume those gaps are disfigurations of the original tablet wherein the words do not exist or otherwise are not readily translatable.

The translation is presented via Lines of text.

I present therefore my personal paraphrases of the highlights of Langdon’s Lines of translation.

Line 1. Bel is confined in a mountain.
Line 3. Someone unnamed brings Bel from the mountain.
Line 11. A female goes to seek Bel at his grave.
Line 12. Twins are appointed to guard Bel at the Gate of Esagila.
Line 13. Bel was bound by the gods and caused to perish.
Line 14. The gods caused Bel to descend from the sun and light.
Line 15. Bel is/was wounded.
Line 16. A goddess descends into the mountain for the welfare of Bel.
Line 18. Bel was judged.
Lines 20 and 21. A malefactor (criminal) was slain with Bel.
Line 23. After Bel went to the mountain/lower world, the inhabitants of the city where Bel was slain rioted because of Bel’s death.
Line 29. A female (goddess?), Beltis, of Babylon, looks for Bel, weeps for Bel, says, “O my brother! O my brother!”
Line 30. Bel’s garments were taken from him.
Line 31. Bel’s silver, gold, and jewels were taken from him.
Line 32. There was a garment put upon Bel when he was put into his coffin.
Line 33. Bel was nursed and reared by Ishtar of Nineveh.
Line 34. The hymn, “When On High,” was recited and sung by Bel’s followers during the month of Nisan, when he was bound/slain.
Line 36. The high priest says “These benefactions for Asur (Bel/Marduk) I do” and asks, “What is his sin?”
Line 38. [H]e (Bel) comes from within the mountain. (Bel is to be resurrected.)
Line 51. Bel was seized in the Month of Nisan.
Line 52. After Bel was taken away (from from the building in which he was tried and judged), water for handwashing was brought to the building.
Line 67. A goddess wails and a woman weeps (for Bel?).

Once again, my paraphrases of Langdon’s text.

p. 50. The Assyrian tablet is a commentary on the ritual which was the festival celebration of the death and resurrection of Bel. The ritual itself was never discovered. From the tablet it is not possible to determine if or not the death and resurrection of Bel was an annual event, but since there is the conjecture/speculation/opinion that the Bel-Marduk myth is based upon the myth of the annual death and resurrection of Tammuz there is reason to believe that the Bel-Marduk death and resurrection was an annual event.

p. 51. Additional Assyrian tablets were discovered which suggest that the Bel-Marduk mystic ritual was widely practiced, that the Bel-Marduk cult was widely known, and therefore would have been easily and readily known in Syria and Judea.

My personal interpretations:

From Line 51 we can read that Bel was seized (arrested).

From Line 18 we can read that Bel was judged, and if he was judged then we can assume that he was tried.

From Line 15 we can see that Bel was wounded, therefore scourged.

From Lines 1, 13 and 14 we can see that Bel was bounded/caused to perish by the gods.

From Lines 20 and 21 we can read that a malefactor (criminal) was slain alongside/at the same time as Bel.

From Lines 30 and 31 we can see that Bel’s garments and silver and gold and jewels were taken from him (from his body?).

From Line 23 we can read that because of Bel’s death the people of the city in which he was slain rioted.

From Line 32 we can read that there was a garment put upon Bel’s body and the body was put into a coffin.

From Line 14 we can read that Bel was forced to descend into a lower world.

From Line 11 we can read that Bel was buried in a grave and that a female went to his grave to seek him.

From Lines 3 and 38 we can read that Bel is (to be) resurrected.

From all this we can create a reasonable script that suggests that Bel was arrested, tried, judged, scourged, slain, a criminal (malefactor) was slain alongside him, the people in a nearby city rioted because of his death, his garments/etc. were taken from him, his body wrapped in a garment and put into a coffin which was put into a grave which was guarded by two men (twins), a woman (female, goddess) sought him at his grave, he was descended into the lower world, and he was resurrected.

From what is common knowledge of the Jesus myth of Christianity, we can make a reasonable judgment that there are enough parallels of the JC myth with the Bel myth that we can judge Christianity to be at least in part based upon the Bel myth.

Judging that the JC myth is based, in part, upon the Bel myth, we can reasonably judge that the parts of the JC myth based upon the Bel myth are not original and that, therefore, those parts of the JC myth are not true.

When a newer myth contains much of an older myth and we find no physical evidence which can serve as conclusive proof of the truth of the older myth, then we have good reason to judge that both myths are equally likely to be false.

My grateful thanks to C. Walker of The British Museum for providing a photocopy of the text and translation from Langdon’s book.

[ October 11, 2001: Message edited by: Bob K ]

Vorkosigan

An awesome find, Bob. And the translator seems to be someone without an ax to grind.
Great work. It's always nice to be wrong like this.

Michael

Boro Nut

I think you are mistaken katlynnhow. I'm sure the Epic is by Homer, not Gilgamesh. It is fully known as the Epic of Odyssey. It's a tragedy. Your mistake that is - not the Epic.

Boro Nut

Kosh

Incredible. YOu mean that after all this
time, we're still just worshiping the Sun
cycle?



Of course, this does add to the apologists
claims that the passion story is the most
documented event in history....

Nomad

Hmm... first off, why is this on two threads now? I will post my reply twice, I suppose, but I would rather not have to argue it on both threads indefinitely. Can the other thread by closed for simplicity's sake? (Serious question to the moderators BTW)

Okay, BEFORE we get started, and go too far with this, a quick point of clarification.

"Bel" is not a name of a god. It is a title, like "Lord", and was applied to chief gods like Marduk (in Babylon/Assyria) and Baal (in Canaan). As this thread is titled the Bel (Baal) Myth, we would assume that we are going to talk about the Canaanite legends. But since the translation is actually about the Babylonian myth, we must be talking about the Marduk legends.

I hope that is not overly confusing, but given that the entire remainder of the post involves a Bablylonian "Bel", I thought it important to explain why, from this point forward, I will be referring to the god by his actual name, Marduk. Fortunately, I notice the change has also been made in your notes below, so we can dispense with the idea that we are talking about Baal, a very different god from Marduk.

And here I wish to pause again, as the information is clearly very old (1923), so my own arguments will be made quoting scholars that have viewed this evidence as well.

Last point before we get started, but I see the dating has been moved from 2000BC to 700BC, a much more realistic dating.

Okay, this is where things start to go wrong. I will be relying, in large part, upon the article was Jesus Christ just a CopyCat Savior Myth?, with special focus on what Miller has to say about Marduk.

First, did Marduk die and rise again in the Creation story according to the Bablyonians?

"There is no hint of Marduk's death in the triumphant account of his cosmic kingship in Enuma elish......The so-called Death and Resurrection of Bel-Marduk is most likely an Assyrian political parody of some now unrecoverable Babylonian ritual...it is doubtful that Marduk was understood as a dying and rising deity...There is no evidence that the Babylonian Marduk was ever understood to be a dying and rising deity..."
(The Encyclopedia of Religion: "Rising and Dying Gods, by J. Smith, [Macmillan Press, 1987], pg. 523).

This is also false. Baal and Marduk are very different gods. Both are cheif gods of their respective religions, but they are no more the same than Ra and Zeus are the same gods. The legends around Baal are about a dying and rising god of a type (connected with his role as god of agriculture and the land). No such tradition or legend is connected to Marduk however. (More on this below).

This has already been debunked long ago.

"There is no hint of Marduk's death in the triumphant account of his cosmic kingship in Enuma elish......The so-called Death and Resurrection of Bel-Marduk is most likely an Assyrian political parody of some now unrecoverable Babylonian ritual...it is doubtful that Marduk was understood as a dying and rising deity...There is no evidence that the Babylonian Marduk was ever understood to be a dying and rising deity..."
(Ibid. pg. 524)

This interpretation of the so-called enthronement Psalms unfortunately has continued for quite some time, notwithstanding the fact that Assyriologists doubt whether the resurrection of Marduk was in fact part of the cult. It has been shown by W. von Soden (130-66) and P. Welten (297-310) that texts KAR 143 and 219 could not be understood as part of the main festival, and therefore could not be held as proof of the glorious reappearance of Marduk."
("New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis, William A. VanGemeren (gen.ed.). Zondervan:1997, s.v. Melek; note: the Enuma Elish certainly does not describe a death for victorious Marduk, but some have argued that the New Year's festival of apiku did relate some such story. This is what the KAR 143/210 documents are referring to.]]

So what about the New Year's festival then? Even if the creation story (Enuma Elish) does not have Marduk dying and rising again, does such a story exist relating to Marduk before (or after) this event?

"According to an earlier hypothesis(Zimmern 1918: 2–20; Pallis 1926: 221–43), the New Year festival's cultic drama included another episode, in which Marduk, prior to his battle with Tiamat, was put to death, taken down to the netherworld, and resurrected, in imitation of the cult of the dying god Dumuzi—Tammuz. However, the NA cultic commentary, on which this hypothesis is based, turned out to be nothing but an anti-Babylonian or pro-Babylonian propaganda. The purpose of this text was either to justify Sennacherib's destruction of Babylon and capture of Marduk's statue, in terms of a divine trial (von Soden 1955:51: 130–166), or to explain Marduk's exile and his return to his city, in terms of death, descent to the netherworld, and resurrection (Frymer-Kensky 1983: 131–44). In any case, this vestigial and late addition to the New Year's Day ritual has nothing to do with the motif of the dying fertility god."
(Anchor Bible Dictionary, David Noel Freedman [main ed.], DoubleDay:1992, "akitu")

Obviously Marduk did not die and rise again here either. Scholars have ruled the evidence to be Assyrian propaganda, intended to justify Assyria's capture of Marduk, and the destruction of his city, Babylon.

Yes, and as we have seen, it is a piece of ancient anti-Babylonian propaganda used by the Assyrians after their defeat of Babylon.

All of this is also true, and should raise a very big red flag when attempting to put any kind of faith in the translation being offered.

"The category of dying and rising gods, once a major topic of scholarly investigation, must now be understood to have been largely a misnomer based on imaginative reconstructions and exceedingly late or highly ambiguous texts."
(The Encyclopedia of Religion "Dying and Rising Gods", by J. Smith)

Indeed. This is exactly what appears to be happening here.

As this story is WAY too long to reproduce here, even in summary, I will link to it, and invite the members to read it for themselves.

Please see:

<A HREF="http://www.ai.univie.ac.at/archives/Psycoloquy/1999.V10/0076.html" TARGET=_blank>MAPS OF MEANING: THE ARCHITECTURE OF BELIEF
Precis of Peterson on Meaning-Belief
(Routledge, 1999, 544 pp. ISBN 0415922224) by Jordan B. Peterson</A>
Department of Psychology
University of Toronto
Toronto, Ontario,
Canada M5S 3G3
peterson@psych.utoronto.ca http://psych.utoronto.ca/~peterson/mom.htm

The myth itself is given in great detail starting at point #23 and continues through #35. In it you will see that Marduk does not die (let alone rise again), nor is the legend linked to that of the Canaanite god, Baal.

The paper itself is extraordinary, and is actually a psychological study into beliefs, theology and mythology. It is a long read, but well worth it. To be honest, I do not know if the author is a theist, but my guess is that he is not.

This is absolutely true, but given that Marduk does not die or rise again from the dead, it has no bearing on the theme of dying and rising gods.

This is a very old saw really, and one advanced at least as far back as the 19th Century. As we can see, it has been thoroughly debunked.

It is my hope that no one will be taken in by it again.

Nomad

[ October 11, 2001: Message edited by: Nomad ]

katlynnhow

Huh?

Photocrat

I only remember lex talionis, not the whole law in Hammurabi, and only the flood in Gilgamesh... I believe you're refering to creation parallels from other documents (also refered to below, by others). I don't think you'll find all these things in the same document.

Bob K

Nomad:

Concerning the Assyrian Bel Myth Tablet circa 700 BC found in Nineveh now in the British Museum, what we have is a tablet upon which are ancient writings and a translation of the ancient writings which suggest that there was a god or godman who was arrested, tried, judged (water was brought for the judges to use to “wash their hands of the judgment), scourged, slain (along with a criminal), buried, resurrected, etc.

These, and others, are the mythical elements which could have been grafted onto the JC myth regardless of any problems regarding Bel not being the correct name, Bel not being Marduk, etc., etc., etc.

In short, the mythical elements are present. And 700 years before JC.

It is these elements which Xns could have borrowed for the JC myth.

You had better understand that what we have here is writings literally written/chiseled in stone, an ancient stone, so there is no question as to the existence of the writings.

What is clear is that we have a dying and rising god/godman 700 BC.

The similarity of the Bel myth elements to the JC myth elements strongly suggest that the JC myth-builders could have borrowed mythical elements from the Bel myth as presented in the referenced tablet.

The presence of mythical elements found in newer but found also in older myths suggests that the newer myths were borrowed from the older myths and therefore are not original myths, and that conclusion suggests strongly that the new myths are not true myths.

Your best bet is to try to prove (A) that the tablet is a phony or (B) that Langdon’s translation is faulty. In particular, if you can prove that the mystical elements are not present, then you will have made your point.

Until you do, then denying/evading/obfuscating/attacking will not prove your point, and Langdon’s translation stands, and my interpretation of his translation stands.

By the way, just because Langdon’s is a 1923 translation does not automatically prove it is false, otherwise the age of the Bible would prove the Bible is false.

Whether or not Marduk is a dying/rising god/godman in Enuma Elish is beside the point. In the Bel Myth Tablet what we have is an ancient writing that refers to Bel as if he is a dying/rising god/godman, and it is this writing that I am addressing.

Whether or not the Bel Myth Tablet is a political satire or commentary or propaganda is beside the point that within its writings are the mythical elements present in the JC myth.

Langdon’s comments clearly indicate that he realized that at the time of his writing that the Bel Myth Tablet is the only source of a description of Bel/Marduk/Assur as a dying/rising god/godman. This point is made in spite of any other information gleenable from The Epic of Creation.

Here are Langdon’s own words: Notice that Langdon refers to Bel as if the name means the name of a deity, not as a title.

This contradicts your claim: Another of your claims, that Marduk was not a rising/dying god, is refuted by the writings of the Assur/Bel Myth Tablets themselves, as Langdon so noted in the above quotes.

Regardless of whether or not Marduk was slain and resurrected in the Epic of Creation, he was slain and resurrected in the Assur tablets.

Here are your words: Once again, for emphasis, from the Assur Bel Myth tablets, we have evidence that there was a Bel-Marduk dying/rising god myth cult which proves that your claims otherwise are false.

And one of your cites references the death/resurrection of Marduk in the Assur tablets and thus clearly indicates that the death/resurrection of Bel/Marduk appeared in the Assur tablets, as Langdon so stated, and thus cannot be dismissed arbitrarily. In regards to the Tammuz myth and the likelihood that the Bel/Marduk myth was based upon the Tammuz myth, you wrote: Who debunked it? What are his credentials? What is his reasoning? What is his proof?

Your contention that the Assur Bel-Marduk tablet was merely Assyrian propaganda does not impress me as being the reason for the writings upon the tablet. The Assur Bel-Marduk tablet writings as Langdon translated them show the death and resurrection of Bel/Marduk, regardless, as Langdon stated, of the writings about Marduk in the Epic of Creation. This is proof of the Bel/Marduk death/resurrection as being a part of the New Year’s festival celebration and cannot be disregarded for convenience.

The following quote is clearly refuted by the writings upon the Assur Bel Myth tablet: There can be no doubt that there was a reference to a dying/rising god in the Assur Bel myth tablets.

Anyone who claims otherwise has to prove that Langdon’s translation is totally fabricated. I am not aware that anyone has satisfactorily proved that Langdon’s translation is a fabrication.

Moreover, there is the initial transcription/translation by H. Zimmern, one of the discoverers of the tablet, in German, in which the mythical elements were described.

At this point, the death/resurrection of Bel-Marduk stands as proven by the Assur Bel myth tablets. It is at least one example of the existence of dying/rising god mythology prior to the JC myth.

Where Langdon stated that additional Assyrian tablets indicated that the dying/rising cult of Bel-Marduk was widely known and practiced you have in effect claimed that Langdon is wrong and that nowhere do we find evidence of a cult in which Bel/Marduk was a dying/rising god.

I quote Langdon once more for emphasis: Your words: You are obviously trying to link the myths of Marduk found in the Epic of Creation/Enuma Elish to the Assur Bel myth tablets by claiming that where there is no death/resurrection of Marduk in the Epic there is no death/resurrection in the Assur tablets despite the fact that Langdon is showing that regardless of the Epic the Assur tablets clearly show a death/resurrection cult of Bel-Marduk which was not accepted in the old cities of Babylon but were accepted in Assyria (and, perhaps we can assume, in the new/young cities of Babylon) and therefore perhaps also known in Syria and Judea and therefore available for Jesus myth-builders to plagiarize.

Once again, the Assur tablets are showing us a different view of Marduk/Bel.

The writings upon the Assur tablets speak for themselves in Langdon’s translations.

Your words: Where I wrote ... ... you wrote ... Bel is Bel/Baal.
http://www.ldolphin.org/Nimrod.html

NOTE: ldolphin = Lambert Dolphin

From: NIMROD, MARS AND THE MARDUK CONNECTION, by Bryce Self

Bryce Self makes the point that the name Bel or Baal was used in place of Marduk: Thus, B. Self states that the people of Israel would have recognized the name Baal to be Bel/Marduk, and not necessarily some other, “very different” god.

You quoted and wrote: Unfortunately for you, regardless of what the Bel myth tablet writings are--propaganda, commentary, etc., the fact is that, chiseled in stone, are references to Bel’s death and resurrection, and 700 BC, meaning enough time for JC myth-builders to have known about the Bel myth and its mythical elements, of which many are similar to the JC myth.

You suggested that the following would debunk the dying/rising Bel-Marduk myth.

MAPS OF MEANING: THE ARCHITECTURE OF BELIEF
Precis of Peterson on Meaning-Belief
(Routledge, 1999, 544 pp. ISBN 0415922224) by Jordan B. Peterson
Department of Psychology
University of Toronto
Toronto, Ontario,
Canada M5S 3G3
peterson@psych.utoronto.ca http://psych.utoronto.ca/~peterson/mom.htm

You wrote: You focus on what the article says about Marduk as not being a dying/rising god and avoid focusing upon what the Assyrian Bel Myth tablets are actually saying about a dying/rising Bel-Marduk. The story of the dying/rising Bel-Marduk is actually in the Assyrian Bel Myth tablet writings. So, regardless of what was or was not in the Epic of Creation, there was dying/rising Bel-Marduk myth in Assyria/Babylonia which contains many mythical elements found in the JC myth, which suggests that the JC myth copied/copycatted the Bel myth elements.

I quote from the Abstract: I happen to have a background in psychology, the above quote is psychobabble.

One of the requirements of the Code of Science is the use of operational definitions. This means all terms/phrases to be used must be defined by means of operational definitions, definitions of terms/phrases by means of descriptions of the observations/measurements of real-world people/things/events. i.e., when you define a term operationally, you define the term/phrase by telling us what people/things/events you saw-heard-touched-smelled-tasted/we could see-hear-touch-smell-taste. By operational definitions abstract terms/phrases can be made concrete, and confusions of definitions are avoided.

See ...
http://www.bobkwebsite.com/thecodeofscience.html [The Code of Science] http://www.bobkwebsite.com/opdefs.html [Operational Definitions]

The failure to provide operational definitions of terms/phrases is usually a sign of sloppy science and philosophy.

In trying to make sense of Peterson’s nonsense, I offer the following paraphrase with my comments and notes in brackets.

What are the most real/useful modes [methods/means] of apprehending the fundamental nature of being or experience? [The terms nature, being, and experience are not defined, hence the entire article suffers from vagueness--no one knows what Peterson is talking about, and most likely Peterson does not know what he is talking about.] Our perceptions [subjectivity/subjective experience]? Or the abstractions [objectivity/objective experience] of scientific investigation? Or are there modes [methods/means] offered by religion and myths more real/useful for apprehending the fundamental nature of being or experience? The focus of religion/myth is striving for morality [morality is not defined]. There are two “divine forces” [“divine” is not defined, but, perhaps, is assumed to mean “supernatural”]; order [predictable stuff] and chaos [nonpredictable stuff producing a need for creative exploration--another term/phrase not operationally defined and therefore vague--but perhaps defined in another sentence as “identification with ‘the world-redeeming saviour’ ” ]--supposedly for the purpose of finding predictable stuff and therefore order]. The “capacity for creative exploration” [identifying with the world-redeeming savior] mediates between “these fundamental constituent elements of experience” and in mythology/religion the “capacity for creative exploration” is “embodied ... in the form of the ever-resurrecting hero.” [Theoretically, Peterson will tell us how.] “Voluntary failure to engage in exploration” [identification with the world-redeeming savior] ... “produces a chain of causally interrelated events whose inevitable endpoint is adoption of a rigid, ideology-predicated, totalitarian identity, and violent suppression of the eternally threatening other” [the phrase “eternally threatening other” is not operationally defined].”

In short, people develop “a rigid, ideology-predicated, totalitarian identity, and violent suppression of the eternally threatening other” because of a “voluntary failure” to identify with or “forfeit of identification” with “the world-redeeming savior.”

In short, believe in a world-redeeming savior or you will develop rigid ideas.

Psychologists do not, as a group, attempt to help people with mental problems by insisting that they identify with world-redeeming savior gods. One psychotherapist, Dr. Albert Ellis, Ph.D., takes a strong stand against bringing religion into psychotherapeutics for the purpose of avoiding the irrationality which constitutes religious ideas.

In general, people develop mental problems because they want more than they can have and they choose ineffective ways of dealing with the fact that they cannot have what they want.

I developed Operational Psychology to deal with pure mental problems, problems not caused by physiological problems.

See ...
http://www.bobkwebsite.com/oppsych1.html

and
http://www.bobkwebsite.com/oppsych2.html

... for expositions of Operational Psychology.

Peterson’s theory is nonsense. When people have mental problems, psychologists do not tell them to go to church and believe in world-redeeming savior gods; instead, they deal with the individual’s thought processes which are the excessive desires/irrational beliefs/maladaptive thoughts which cause negative emotions and continue the cycle of mental problems. Mental health is achieved by desiring what one can have and developing positive emotions as a result.

Buddhism, one of the great world religions, when stripped of its mysticism, ...

A. Samsara: The Wheel of Birth and Rebirth, typically translated by Westerners as reincarnation.
B. Karma: The works done in a previous life have influence on one's station in a reincarnation.
C. Nirvana: Release from Samsara.

... is pure cognitive psychology:

The essence of Buddhism: The Four Noble Truths
1. Dukkha: Man suffers.
2. Tanha: Man suffers because of greed, defined as excessive desire.
3. Nirvana: Man’s suffering can be alleviated.
4. Marga: Man’s suffering can be alleviated by means of The Eightfold Path.
1. Right View or Knowledge.
2. Right Thought.
3. Right Speech.
4. Right Conduct.
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort.
7. Right Mind Control.
8. Right Meditation.

Pure Buddhism does not require people to believe in world-redeeming savior gods. It deals with the excessive desires people have that cause them trouble--the essence of cognitive psychology. Thus, even a religion--pure Buddhism, does not require people who need help to believe in world-redeeming savior gods.

Again, Peterson’s theory is nonsense.

By the way, Peterson refers to the Egyptian myth of the death and resurrection of Osiris in paragraphs 39-43. which gives us another dying/rising god story from which Xnity may have “borrowed” myths.

You want us to look at ...
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycatwho1.html

... for an article on Copycat Christs, the gist of which is that there are no other dead/resurrected gods other than JC, and that, therefore, JC is not a copycat christ, but, instead, is the one-and-only Real Thing.

Upon glancing through this article it became clear that many of your cites have been directly from this article, but, unfortunately, you focus on whether or not Bel-Marduk was a dying/rising savior god instead of focusing upon what the Assyrian Bel Myth Tablet actually says. As Langdon points out, the Bel Myth tablet gives a dying/rising story for Bel-Marduk in contrast to other stories in the Epic of Creation.

I am aware that I am repeating myself. It is time for a summary.

We have evidence in Langdon’s translations of the Assur Bel myth tablets of a dying-rising/death-resurrection god myth prior to the JC myth.

If you continue to deny that there were dying/rising god cults prior to the JC myth in spite of the evidence shown in Langdon’s translations of the Assur tablets, then we arrive at a point at which I have good reason to prefer to part company.

In summary, we have an ancient tablet upon which are writings which reveal mythical elements which could have been plagiarized by JC myth-builders and which reveal a dying-rising/death-resurrection god myth prior to the JC myth. And all this at least 700 years prior to the JC myth.

[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: Bob K ]

katlynnhow

Indeed.... Enuma Elish (creation myth) and Epic of Gilgamesh (flood myth), both of Babylonian origin.

The Code of Hammurabi includes some 280 odd laws (although some are missing), many of which are retaliatory, but a few appear in within the 10 Commandments. For instance, I think that this - "If any one bring an accusation of any crime before the elders, and does not prove what he has charged, he shall, if it be a capital offense charged, be put to death" is similar to "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" and this "If any one is committing a robbery and is caught, then he shall be put to death" is comparable to this "Thou shalt not steal". There are a few others.

katlynnhow

I'm not sure what you're driving at but I'll make an attempt to address it anyway...

"the earliest recorded story we have is the Epic of Gilgamesh, first written in the first centuries of the 2nd millennium BC, but which existed in the oral tradition much, much earlier."

"the Iliad and the Odyssey of Homer are the most famous of all stories from antiquity. the earliest reference we have to a text of Homer's work is from a Greek poet in the 7th century BC. By 5th century BC there appears to have been a standard manuscript text."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/bookc...ks/more1.shtml


"The first written account of a superhero appears almost 4,800 years ago -- pre-dating Homer, Vergil and even the Bible -- in the form of Gilgamesh, the ruler of Uruk who is said to have actually existed and ruled for 126 years."

"The first account of a superhero is not this epic's only claim to fame. "The Epic of Gilgamesh" pre-dates the Bible by about 2,000 years with its mention of a great flood to rid earth of humankind, and it prefigures Homer's Odysseus as the first man considering the pros and cons of immortality. "Gilgamesh" is also the first account of the themes found in the "Adam and Eve" story, the serpent responsible for the loss of immortality, and a paradise regained, pre-dating the Christian concept of heaven."
http://www.timespinner.com/features/.../gilgamesh.php

"3000-2700 B.C.. Gilgamesh is written down. This is the first known written story, and contains a description of the Black Sea flood (The Flood). The author of one of the versions signed his tablets, so Shin-eqi-unninni is the earliest known human author."

"800 B.C. The Iliad, attributed to the blind poet Homer, is written down. This is the oldest work of Western literature; it was a prior oral tradition. Modern astronomical computer simulations indicate that the Iliad was primarily an extensive mnemonic device for recording astronomical data - detailed star relationships and star motion (star rise/set). It is also the greatest literary glorification of war ever recorded. It reflects an individual warrior ethic of a tribal people."
http://www.montaguemillennium.com/research/history.htm