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Old 12-11-2000, 02:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
...but can we determine from the text and context that the prohibition against adultery was only targeted towards women, in that it was forbiddent to sleep with another man's wife, but acceptable for a man to have more than one wife?
I belive that is correct. There was actually a test directed towards women which tested whether or not they were an adulterer. I'm not even sure the way the test was designed that one could even pass it. And there were no such test for men. It's in the book of Numbers, chapter 5, I think.

The real reason why adultery was forbidden, was because of the men not wanting to catch any veneral disease. The morality issue wasn't as important to them, methinks. Women weren't treated any better than cattle for the most part. Misogyny is often a common theme.

John
 
Old 12-11-2000, 04:17 PM   #12
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karly,

It's hard to bring myself to do this, I mean, I've seen some displays of poor analisis before but this is pretty bad.

I excluded adultery, the bible is clear, sex with someone other than your spouse is not OK.

BUT , what if you have no spouse?

***** no FORNICATION right *********


the bible is clear, sex with someone other than your spouse is not OK
If you are not married, then you have no spouse
If you then have sex, it, logically, can not be with your spouse
Therefore, unmarried sex is adultry

Hey pal just razzin' ya.
No hard feelings?

Ever come across this?
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

light-hearted
dave

[This message has been edited by FeloniousBatch (edited December 11, 2000).]
 
Old 12-12-2000, 08:57 AM   #13
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FB: Your interpretation of biblical meaning is no more authoritative than your interpretation of Constitutional Law.

Instead of just asserting the bible is clear, you need to actually show it. Specifically let's see the actual passages and reference the actual Hebrew and/or Greek so we can analyze the connotations of the text, not the translators.

Karlydee's original analysis may or may not be accurate, but it is certainly of high quality: She references specific passages, and shows a distinction between the actual word used in the text (porneia/prostitution) and the word for sex in general (erotiki).

She easily makes her prima facie case. You're entitled to refute her hypothesis, but denigrating it (especially with your terrible grammar and spelling) is rude and displays arrogance.
 
Old 12-12-2000, 01:32 PM   #14
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Originally posted by John the Atheist:
The real reason why adultery was forbidden, was because of the men not wanting to catch any veneral disease. The morality issue wasn't as important to them, methinks. Women weren't treated any better than cattle for the most part. Misogyny is often a common theme.
I would give even greater importance to the need for a confirmed paternity. After all, it's easy to know who the mother is, but daddy could be any old Samaritan whore-monger. In patriarchal societies where everything is passed down the male line, blood connection becomes an obsession. The only way to ensure you aren't leaving your goats to the mailman's son is to control the woman's sexual behavior.

 
Old 12-12-2000, 01:40 PM   #15
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hey, livius_drusus
!

can I pretend you are Rush L. and say ditto?
 
Old 12-12-2000, 02:19 PM   #16
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The real reason why adultery was forbidden, was because of the men not wanting to catch any venereal disease. {emphasis added}
Absurd as this sounds, I think you're "anthropomorphizing" their behavior.

There evidence that primitive (pre-scientific) people did not use rational or intentional means to construct their society and religion.

It's likely, rather, that there are a number of selection factors that contribute to the accumulation and persistence of official and de facto moral memes in any social organization: disease, paternity/inheritance, reproductive competition, among others.
 
Old 12-12-2000, 03:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by livius_drusus:
[B] I would give even greater importance to the need for a confirmed paternity.
That's a good one, and I should have remembered that one.

John
 
Old 12-13-2000, 04:08 PM   #18
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SIngleDad,

Calm down. I would hardly believe that karly is as offended as you are. And I did give my own verse to referance. Or is it not acceptable? All I'm saying is that fornication is a subset of adultry. And I use logic to demostrait. I liked my post. It was clever. My apologies if I hurt karly's feelings. And, no apology to you Single dad.

Felonious
 
Old 12-15-2000, 09:45 AM   #19
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donnerkeil: "the man who had relations with her shall pay the girl's father fifty silver shekels and take her as his wife, because he has deflowered her."

As others have already stated, the prohibition against sex extends only to women. But as the quote above demonstrates it was due to their place in that society. They were considered property and a virgin was worth more on the open market.
 
Old 12-15-2000, 02:12 PM   #20
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Felonious-

I must actually clarify

Adultery only applies to sex with married people, it specifically applies to a person having sex with a ***married*** person who is not his/her spouse.

Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

the word "put away is often translated as divorce, however the root GREEK is apoluo

apoleipo in Ancient Greek means : to abandon or leave behind,

yet divorce is the word : diazygio, chorizo

see even an unmarried man can commit adultery but only with someone elses wife, the logic in the preceeding scripture sets out a prohibition [ don't abandon your wife except for fornication (notice it says nothing but fornication can be a reason for abandonment -- not even adultery itself hmm..); and then sets out the conseqences if you do what you were told not to] obviously if you abandon your wife for a non-valid reason, she is still your wife and adultery applies to you and any man she marries. Furthermore this passage seems to limit adultery to men. [ it doesn't say anything about her being guilty of adultery]

So adultery is specifically tied to marriage, yet fornication is an act separated from marriage.

how about a OT reference that is metaphorical

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also

hebrew for adultery
05003 na'aph {naw-af'}

a primitive root; TWOT - 1273; v

AV - adultery 17, adulterer 8, adulteress 4, adulterous 1,
women that break wedlock 1; 31

1) to commit adultery
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to commit adultery
1a1a) usually of man
1a1a1) always with wife of another
1a1b) adultery (of women) (participle)
1a2) idolatrous worship (fig.)
1b) (Piel)
1b1) to commit adultery
1b1a) of man
1b1b) adultery (of women) (participle)
1b2) idolatrous worship (fig.)

notice marriage is stipulated.

hmmm.... idolworship seems to rear its head too

Jer 3:9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.

hard to have sex with stones, so here adultery is used to mean Idolatry --- tied to ritual prostitution

Jer 5:7 How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by [them that are] no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots' houses.

whoa -- here again prostitution is implied as well as the same hebrew "na'aph"


 
 

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