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Old 02-24-2001, 03:33 PM   #11
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This is a reply to the discussion on the purpose of a sacrifice in Jewish and Christian thought.

The thought behind a sacrifice is heavily dependent on the type of sacrifice and even the method employed in the sacrificing of it.

Burnt offering: complete consecration for the whole thing is burned (eaten by God figuratively). It is also interesting that this is the only sacrifice that gentiles were allowed to bring (Edershiem, the Temple).

Sin Offering: A more joyful occasion where the sinner was atoned of sin in general. Some consider it the most important of the sacrifices.

Trespass Offering: A graver occasion where a specific sin of the offerer had to be dealt with. This is the only sin with the idea of a ransom in it.

Peace Offering: A joyous sacrifice celebrating union between God and the individual in which each partakes of eating portions of the sacrifice in a covenantal meal.

All other sacrifices accompany these in varying amounts and combinations. On religious festivals, special rites were performed that gave a specific nuance to that day and the sacrifices performed. The way in which it is offered tells how holy it is (which altar, gold or silver or bronze, on what side of the altar, who could eat it, where could it be eaten, how long did one have to eat it).

As to which Jesus question. He is presented as all of them at one time or another. Hebrews for example describes it as an inauguratory sacrifice (Exodus 24). Mark plays up the ransom idea. John calls Him the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. Passover (on which His death surrounds, not the Day of Atonement) has a national birthday through trouble idea to it. Yet, Day of Atonement language is used of Him also. Then there are passages that emphasize the peace/reconciliation idea. The list goes on. It is almost as if He is the one in all, one size fits all, ultimate sacrifice. Of course the skeptic will use this to show the incongruity of early Christian thought on the subject. hmmmm.......possible.

Sin originally had the simplistic idea (un-theological) of missing the mark, accident, or imperfection. It then becomes applied to ones relationship with God through clean and unclean distinctions. It then travels to describe ones personal relation with God where it stands in regards to salvation. The designation unclean does not equal moral wrong. No one could avoid being ceremonially unclean a times in their Jewish life, not even Jesus. But it's just that, a ceremonial distinction, not necessarily a moral one. Hence, sacrifices that are offered ceremonially and morally are both called "sin" offerings.

Sacrifices may have any one or combination of the following ideas: bribe, expiation, devotion, covenantal meal, thanks, etc.

Best to tread cautiously on this topic for it is even beyond my expertise.
Old 02-24-2001, 04:04 PM   #12
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JragonFli:
Blood sacrafices have exhisted far longer than Judiasm, let alone Christianity. Doesn't it bother christians that they are just worshiping a cheap knock off of sun worship?</font>
It depends... when did Judaism and Christianity start? According to the Bible, from the beginning of the world people were sacrificing to God: Abel, Noah, Abraham... all the ancestors of what would eventually become the Jewish nation and later Christianity. It seems likely, thus, that the 'sun worship' and pagan sacrifices are, as you put it, 'a cheap knock off' of God's sacrifice system.

Oh please. Sacrifices are far older than the Bible or the Jews. The neanderthals were burying their dead with rituals long before Abraham. I don't think judiasm is a cheap knock-off (more like an evolutionary descendant), but it is apparent that many cultures felt that the gods were bloodthirsty pricks -- which the Bible demonstrates most thoroughly -- and needed to be appeased with blood.

Old 02-24-2001, 05:48 PM   #13
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The answer is the bible god is DRACULA
Old 02-24-2001, 06:34 PM   #14
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"I'm not a theologian, but here goes: It seems that Jesus and only Jesus can forgive sins. ('No one comes to the father but through me'). Thus it's Jesus' sacrifice and only Jesus' sacrifice which forgives the sins. Therefore the Jewish sacrifice system must be symbolic of Jesus' death. He is the Lamb from God who forgives sins. In sacrificing lambs, the Jews were symbolically recognising Jesus' death as their forgiving Lamb."

Maybe the theologians have it wrong. People forgive each other's sins all of the time. And people make sacrifices for others all of the time, even placing themselves in danger to save someone else's life. What makes Jesus special in doing the same things that other people do?

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